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Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

theatlantic.com

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Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#21

Post by jacquesm »

mrmffh wrote: post #16
jacquesm wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The latest plan seems to be to cut corporate taxes to try to stop the larger companies from leaving the UK, and possibly to attract new ones. The race to the bottom started with Ireland, suggestions are to cut the tax to 15% in the rest of the UK, with some voices pushing for 10% or even 5% corporate tax. Of course this has nothing to do with using the opportunity created by the brexit power vacuum to reward some spe…

Race to the bottom (i.e. competition) is a good thing, it reduces waste and inefficiency.

In lala-economic-theory-land yes. But this is not companies competing for the favors of customers. This is nation states competing for the favors of companies and that is a totally different matter.

In the real world you need taxes to operate a country and with big business being able to relocate their capital and their profits at a moments notice corporations have a substantial advantage over nation states (which are by definition somewhat immobile).

So the 'inefficiency' that you seek to eliminate is the oil required to keep the machine running. Note that a company couldn't care less if your country roads fall into disrepair, healthcare sucks and education starts to fall behind. It won't show up in the quarterly reports for a long time and by the time it does they can easily move on to another place.

Having a very low corporate tax is only possible if your country does not require major infrastructure and that's one of the reasons why most tax havens are either nearly un-inhabitable (Cyprus, Panama) or extremely small (Monaco, Lichtenstein, Vaduz, Luxemburg).

Ireland is the exception and it only succeeded there for reasons that the UK will find hard to emulate.

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#22

Post by douche »

keithpeter wrote: post #5

>> Edelman said that people tend to trust businesses more than governments, in part because “business gets stuff done” while government is seen as “incapable.” People trust technology companies in particular because “they deliver value.” UK Brexit vote: most (not all) business leaders were advising a remain vote. Apart from the 'immigration' trigger, the 'take back control' trigger does come up in my conversations wi…

You really can't rule out the "they took our jobs!" angle[1], whether it is legitimate or not.

[1] http://southpark.cc.com/clips/104259/they-took-our-jobs

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#23

Post by nradov »

jacquesm wrote: post #9
keithpeter wrote: post #5

>> Edelman said that people tend to trust businesses more than governments, in part because “business gets stuff done” while government is seen as “incapable.” People trust technology companies in particular because “they deliver value.” UK Brexit vote: most (not all) business leaders were advising a remain vote. Apart from the 'immigration' trigger, the 'take back control' trigger does come up in my conversations wi…

The latest plan seems to be to cut corporate taxes to try to stop the larger companies from leaving the UK, and possibly to attract new ones. The race to the bottom started with Ireland, suggestions are to cut the tax to 15% in the rest of the UK, with some voices pushing for 10% or even 5% corporate tax. Of course this has nothing to do with using the opportunity created by the brexit power vacuum to reward some spe…

Let's cut corporate income taxes to 0%. And increase income taxes on investors and employees to make the change revenue neutral. That would increase economic growth and efficiency by allowing corporations to focus on generating real customer value instead of financial engineering for tax avoidance.

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#24

Post by tonyedgecombe »

LoSboccacc wrote: post #7
mrmffh wrote: post #2

I'd argue this is a positive trend. Hopefully it leads to more innovation in governance.

I see it as the perfect storm, trust collapse is causing apathy, not desire to reform. when they say government is migrating toward a gerontocracy is not just because politician are from the older classes, but also because younger participate less in the democratic debate, whether in the first line or by voting. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/35/Uk_general_el... https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images…

We didn't have apathy in the recent UK referendum, voter turnout was very high.

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#25

Post by jacquesm »

lostlogin wrote: post #12
jacquesm wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The latest plan seems to be to cut corporate taxes to try to stop the larger companies from leaving the UK, and possibly to attract new ones. The race to the bottom started with Ireland, suggestions are to cut the tax to 15% in the rest of the UK, with some voices pushing for 10% or even 5% corporate tax. Of course this has nothing to do with using the opportunity created by the brexit power vacuum to reward some spe…

> The latest plan seems to be to cut corporate taxes to try to stop the larger companies from leaving the UK, and possibly to attract new ones. < The same taxes that the larger corporates avoid in the first place? This seems a flawed plan.

It's just some nice pork for the friends of those that made this decision, other than that I don't think it has even a remote chance of working.

Businesses favor stability over almost everything else and the way the UK has been going in the last couple of weeks the degree of uncertainty is so large that they'd have to set the rate at a negative percentage to attract new business. Nobody in their right mind is looking to move their currently successful business to the UK unless it is a business that can be moved out at a moments notice.

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#27

Post by jacquesm »

nradov wrote: post #23
jacquesm wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The latest plan seems to be to cut corporate taxes to try to stop the larger companies from leaving the UK, and possibly to attract new ones. The race to the bottom started with Ireland, suggestions are to cut the tax to 15% in the rest of the UK, with some voices pushing for 10% or even 5% corporate tax. Of course this has nothing to do with using the opportunity created by the brexit power vacuum to reward some spe…

Let's cut corporate income taxes to 0%. And increase income taxes on investors and employees to make the change revenue neutral. That would increase economic growth and efficiency by allowing corporations to focus on generating real customer value instead of financial engineering for tax avoidance.

This only works if you'd do it in a larger body of entities (such as... the EU), otherwise it will just lead to companies taking advantage of the fact that they are mobile and countries are not.

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#28

Post by tonyedgecombe »

nradov wrote: post #23
jacquesm wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The latest plan seems to be to cut corporate taxes to try to stop the larger companies from leaving the UK, and possibly to attract new ones. The race to the bottom started with Ireland, suggestions are to cut the tax to 15% in the rest of the UK, with some voices pushing for 10% or even 5% corporate tax. Of course this has nothing to do with using the opportunity created by the brexit power vacuum to reward some spe…

Let's cut corporate income taxes to 0%. And increase income taxes on investors and employees to make the change revenue neutral. That would increase economic growth and efficiency by allowing corporations to focus on generating real customer value instead of financial engineering for tax avoidance.

The UK has made a step in that direction, the last budget increased taxes on dividends.

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#29

Post by collyw »

mrmffh wrote: post #16
jacquesm wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The latest plan seems to be to cut corporate taxes to try to stop the larger companies from leaving the UK, and possibly to attract new ones. The race to the bottom started with Ireland, suggestions are to cut the tax to 15% in the rest of the UK, with some voices pushing for 10% or even 5% corporate tax. Of course this has nothing to do with using the opportunity created by the brexit power vacuum to reward some spe…

Race to the bottom (i.e. competition) is a good thing, it reduces waste and inefficiency.

Thats why so many big businesses are setting up in undeveloped countries.

Re: Trust in Government Is Collapsing Around the World

#30

Post by danieltillett »

cm3 wrote: post #19
danieltillett wrote: post #8

This just the masses realising that they have been decapitated. In all western countries the intelligent are identified at a young age and brought into the ruling class via education. There is no one left to speak for the interests of the bottom 90% nor formulate a plan to change the status quo. Faced with this it is not surprising that the masses get restless and thrash out at any symbol of authority no matter the c…

I find that hard to believe. Those in power, which you classify as (more) intelligent, were afraid of their peer Yanis Varoufakis so much that they did everything to make him leave. They didn't understand his proposals (models) because the other finance ministers missed vital economic knowledge, or that's how it seems to me at least. If I looked for it, I could name many not-so-intelligent and uneducated ministers al…

I am not suggesting that all of the ruling class are intelligent, but that almost none of the masses are these days. Anyone born into the masses with the talent and brains to challenge the rulers is brought into the ruling class via education.
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