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In New Jersey Student Loan Program, Even Death May Not Bring a Reprieve

nytimes.com

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Re: In New Jersey Student Loan Program, Even Death May Not Bring a Reprieve

#21

Post by douche »

taneq wrote: post #17
ams6110 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically 1-8 used to be the minumum and those 8th graders were probably better prepared for life than today's 12th graders are.

By which you mean, life was navigable by an 8th grader back then? I don't think the quality of year 8 students has dropped that significantly.

How much value is added during 9-12th grade? A k-8 program with a little bit of life skills and shop would be better than what I did in 12 years. Especially if you consider that people were working sub-minimum wage jobs for a few years after getting through 8th grade in those days, which were effectively apprenticeships.

Re: In New Jersey Student Loan Program, Even Death May Not Bring a Reprieve

#22

Post by pkaye »

themartorana wrote: post #19
rayiner wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article calls this abusive loan-sharking at the behest of the state's evil Goldman Sachs overlords. But the woman co-signed her son's loan. What did she think that meant?

Yeah that was silly. This is still relevant, though: "Most significant, New Jersey’s loans come with a cudgel that even the most predatory for-profit players cannot wield: the power of the state. New Jersey can garnish wages, rescind state income tax refunds, revoke professional licenses, even take away lottery winnings — all without having to get court approval."

What happens if they move to a different state?

Re: In New Jersey Student Loan Program, Even Death May Not Bring a Reprieve

#23

Post by themartorana »

iamleppert wrote: post #6

School is for suckers anymore. Who in their right mind would put themselves through what amounts to institutional training for a life of future labor, middle class if you're lucky, working for a corporation as an at-will employee? You've paid thousands and given up four years of your youth, and for what? To go to work (if you're lucky for many) for a big corporation making a select few wealthier? Meanwhile your salar…

Well, except for GPs, oncologists, gastroenterologists... hell, all doctors... nurses, lawyers, chemical engineers, civil engineers, structural engineers... hell, all engineers... architects, accountants, actuaries, physicists, biologists, epidemiologists... hell, all scientists...

Re: In New Jersey Student Loan Program, Even Death May Not Bring a Reprieve

#24

Post by josephlord »

endianswap wrote: post #7
rayiner wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article calls this abusive loan-sharking at the behest of the state's evil Goldman Sachs overlords. But the woman co-signed her son's loan. What did she think that meant?

Yeah it's pretty straightforward to pair a loan like this with life insurance (which is not only cheap for someone of college age but also generally requires no medical exam).

Then it would also be pretty cheap for the lender to insure against borrower's death or to bear the low (amortised) cost.

There is no reason a guarantor couldn't be responsible only for wilful failure to pay but not for after death.

I'm not saying these things apply in the agreement under discussion or under the relevant laws but just that different structures are possible.

Re: In New Jersey Student Loan Program, Even Death May Not Bring a Reprieve

#26

Post by trhway »

jerf wrote: post #18
trhway wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

man, K-12 is no more. K-16 is the bare minimum to function in the current civilization. Obviously this new reality should be reflected in school organization, i.e. whole K-16 should be covered by the public.

In which case the "bare minimum" signaling will just move up to the next level, and then graduate degrees will be required. At which point post-graduate will be required. You can't signal that you're above average if everybody comes up to the same "above average" at the same time. This isn't even hypothetical, there are already industries where this is how it works. A 4-year-degree in teaching or social work just get…

>In which case the "bare minimum" signaling will just move up to the next level, and then graduate degrees will be required. At which point post-graduate will be required.

definitely. In the future where all "simple" jobs are automated the basic necessary skill level would be an ability to do research, ie. the post-graduate level. Without it, one would be able only to enjoy the life provided by the automated systems and wouldn't be able to contribute to the society. It has already happened several times for previous levels of education - from reading/writing as a sign of being "educated" hundreds years ago to manufacturing jobs (K-12 level) which were middle-class jobs just a few decades ago.

>A 4-year-degree in teaching or social work just gets you in the door; you are very much expected to keep going and get masters degrees if you want any sort of raise.

these are government jobs, not subject to market forces, it is more like armed forces in that regard.

Re: In New Jersey Student Loan Program, Even Death May Not Bring a Reprieve

#28

Post by toodlebunions »

Student loans are an impending financial disaster. Over a trillion in loans outstanding not, most of which have provided no benefit and serve little more than as the modern equivalent to a high school diploma. The debt burden follows students through life and impedes home ownership, children, and other middle class consumptive activities, and as a result the demand driven economy muddles along.

What is the solution? Forgive all loans after paying 10% of salary for 10 years? I don't know, but something needs to change.

Re: In New Jersey Student Loan Program, Even Death May Not Bring a Reprieve

#29

Post by rayiner »

toodlebunions wrote: post #28

Student loans are an impending financial disaster. Over a trillion in loans outstanding not, most of which have provided no benefit and serve little more than as the modern equivalent to a high school diploma. The debt burden follows students through life and impedes home ownership, children, and other middle class consumptive activities, and as a result the demand driven economy muddles along. What is the solution?…

> What is the solution? Forgive all loans after paying 10% of salary for 10 years? I don't know, but something needs to change.

No that would just inflate the education bubble even more. You need to figure out how to reduce the demand for all this useless higher education.

Re: In New Jersey Student Loan Program, Even Death May Not Bring a Reprieve

#30

Post by trothamel »

rayiner wrote: post #29
toodlebunions wrote: post #28

Student loans are an impending financial disaster. Over a trillion in loans outstanding not, most of which have provided no benefit and serve little more than as the modern equivalent to a high school diploma. The debt burden follows students through life and impedes home ownership, children, and other middle class consumptive activities, and as a result the demand driven economy muddles along. What is the solution?…

> What is the solution? Forgive all loans after paying 10% of salary for 10 years? I don't know, but something needs to change. No that would just inflate the education bubble even more. You need to figure out how to reduce the demand for all this useless higher education.

Limit the maximum percentage of a person's salary that can go to "loan" repayment, and put the school on the hook for anything over that amount - they have to repay the bank or government. The problem to me is that the schools, who decide who gets in, have very little on the line if they make a bad decision.

I think the percentage should be fairly high - say, 33% - but only on the amount of money a person makes above what an average high school graduate makes.

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