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Modern China Is So Crazy It Needs a New Literary Genre

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Re: Modern China Is So Crazy It Needs a New Literary Genre

#21
post #5

I think the "crazy" aspect coming into play is an iteration of the world-shattering view that occurs when a child realizes his or her parents are just people, not infallible perfect protectors. This fundamentally changes the view of the world for a person because a fundamental truth is no longer true. This change can be viewed as "crazy" and reality becomes more chaotic in the new world view. I believe the same thing…

I agree the craziness of China's society today is because people are lost in a unfamiliar era. The old life style where family and village are at the absolute center is gone, but the new structure with comprehensive and strictly enforced law and modern civic code are not in place. People are dumbfounded. Imagine if Europeans were teleported from 600 AD to 1800 AD, bypassing all those Renaissance/Enlightenment years.

In China's history the oligarchy/government/emperors were always been regarded as the oppressor, the enemy, the bad guy, by ordinary Chinese. They got power through violence or family line. So people didn't care much, other than paying the painfully exorbitant taxes. For people it's the village leaders/families that actually had intimate ties with them. I think perhaps a better analogy for the world-shattering change facing by today's China might be an isolated tribe being suddenly exposed to modern capitalism/commerce/ideas of freedom/etc., and felt lost, and is searching for ways to go forward, while there are no applicable lessons either from its own history or the hugely different western countries. It's truly remarkable.

Re: Modern China Is So Crazy It Needs a New Literary Genre

#22
post #7

So, some corrupt officials, a polygamist, a wanted official seeking asylum in a foreign consulate, and restaurants reusing cooking oil too much is an example of "unreality"? Where exactly did the author grew up in? Cushioned upper class life, or Disneyland? And those examples in a country with over a billion people? You can find all those examples in Africa, Asia, South America, etc. A lot of those are hardly uncommo…

You do realize that the death of Mao, the cleansing of th Gang of Four, and the end of the Cultural Revolution was only 40 years ago? A significant fraction of people there survived the Great Leap Forward and now live in a weirdly capitalistic country. Couple that with the difference between rural and urban China, and I expect you might want to forgive the author abit of dislocation.

Re: Modern China Is So Crazy It Needs a New Literary Genre

#23

i don't know about a new genre, but modern china on it's current trajectory would be perfect material for an epic dystopian novel

You subscribe to the thesis that China's future is grim compared to it's present state? Or that it is a dystopia of epic proportions right now? If you care to elaborate, I am interested in your perspective.

It’s in the process of materialising, the conditions are already set. Firstly, China’s "rise" came from cheap labour and the destruction of the environment. Labour is not so cheap anymore, and the environment is all but destroyed. But that’s okay, China’s already rich, right? Problem is the people are still poor, and much of the money already left the country. China’s GDP (PPP) per capita is less than that of Iraq, but the media and hence the masses are too fixated on national GDP to even notice (as times get tougher, this will change). Now that manufacturing is on the way out, where’s the money going to come from? The people still haven’t woken up but the party certainly has. They know there’s a ticking time-bomb of social unrest. Time to bring back Confucian ideology to maintain social order, and find an appropriate scapegoat for all the problems; western values (which they never even clearly defined). Enter the State Administration of Film, Radio and Television (广电总局) to ensure that all media, including movies and TV series, push this agenda, and the Social Credit System (社会信用体系) to ensure that your level of success in life is determined by how closely you follow the party line. People will not even dare joke about the party, let alone criticize it; too easy to get caught and too much to lose. Power will go unchecked at unprecedented levels and be enforced by technology. I could write a lot more, but these are just some of the reasons I think China's future is grim. I have lived in China for a few years and I've been seeing these changes happen before my eyes.

Re: Modern China Is So Crazy It Needs a New Literary Genre

#24
post #7

So, some corrupt officials, a polygamist, a wanted official seeking asylum in a foreign consulate, and restaurants reusing cooking oil too much is an example of "unreality"? Where exactly did the author grew up in? Cushioned upper class life, or Disneyland? And those examples in a country with over a billion people? You can find all those examples in Africa, Asia, South America, etc. A lot of those are hardly uncommo…

A clearer example of the sort of unreality that the author is trying to describe to you would be the Wenzhou train derailment in 2011. [1]

Faced with a crisis that was guaranteed to attract national attention, local officials reacted by attempting to quickly bury the derailed cars on the spot, to the sheer incredulity of absolutely everyone else in China.

This is not easily dismissed as a mere example of corruption, or cruelty, or societal failure; rather, it appeared more like a desperate innovation, an attempt to mitigate political damage that revealed serious disconnects between the worldview of the local administration and those of both the general populace and the national administration.

It was particularly curious and apt in that this was a national crisis about a great source of national pride, wherein perennial worries of Chinese governance were brought to the fore.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wenzhou_train_collision

Re: Modern China Is So Crazy It Needs a New Literary Genre

#25
post #7

So, some corrupt officials, a polygamist, a wanted official seeking asylum in a foreign consulate, and restaurants reusing cooking oil too much is an example of "unreality"? Where exactly did the author grew up in? Cushioned upper class life, or Disneyland? And those examples in a country with over a billion people? You can find all those examples in Africa, Asia, South America, etc. A lot of those are hardly uncommo…

> And those examples in a country with over a billion people? You can find all those examples in Africa, Asia, South America, etc.

And North America. And Europe.

> Corrupt politicians? We have Presidents and PMs, senators and MPs openly retiring and joining the boards of companies they helped during their political career.

You can't really call it corruption because it's just the system working as designed.

Big business and Big government are intertwined and interdependent. State governments protect and isolate corporations from competition domestically and they use state power to protect 'national interests' internationally. In exchange for this politicians and high level bureaucrats get their cut.

This is something that the state is designed specifically to do. Economic exploitation is the purpose of having centralized government.

People used to be much more honest and aware of this sort of thing. During the era of president Wilson it was common to talk about how it was important for USA to eliminate 'wasteful competition' by consolidating businesses into national-sized entities that could more effectively represent USA interests internationally. It was felt that is USA was allowed to remain a hodge-podge of small to medium competing businesses that it would not be able to compete internationally with other nations.

Nowadays it's a common belief that centralized democratic government is needed to counter the negative effects of corporate avarice instead of realizing that state government is necessary for these 'large corporations' to exist in the first place.

Whether or not this is bad is a matter of perspective.

Re: Modern China Is So Crazy It Needs a New Literary Genre

#26
post #5

I think the "crazy" aspect coming into play is an iteration of the world-shattering view that occurs when a child realizes his or her parents are just people, not infallible perfect protectors. This fundamentally changes the view of the world for a person because a fundamental truth is no longer true. This change can be viewed as "crazy" and reality becomes more chaotic in the new world view. I believe the same thing…

> When the citizens realize the infallible groupthink propaganda touted by the ruling class is in fact being touted by people inflicted with the human condition, they also experience a change in world view.

As someone who has grown up in and is Chinese, I very much disagree with this sentiment, especially in modern day. There has always been a discordant and uncomfortable relationship with authority in Chinese culture- we are polite to put on airs to our authorities but we also secretly hate them in some respects. We understand they are human, like us, but for the sake of society rule airs are put on to keep them. It has always been understood that authority and corruption are tightly bound, perhaps even more understood than in America.

The young see all the holes the government has and both desires to being justice and also acutely feel the burdens of society's structure on them, but to upend society has an almost horrific cultural connotation, a cultural catastophe referred to only as "that critical time" or "those difficult times". In this triangulation we have also the need for simple food, water, love, shelter, peace. The modern world and the ancient world are so intertwined in China, that going of the cities is like a form of time travel. The difference between my mother's home village and the city less than 1 hour away by train is the entire industrial revolution.

Much of modern China is also influences from "the critical time" on the modern history. China still has not recovered, culturally, emotionally. It might never will, not in any real way. People have been producing this kind of literature since that time. The most accurate thing in the article is when the article notes that China might "always" have been like this.

Yes, China has always been like this in its own way. China has had these methods of storytelling for a long, long time. Now the new generation of writers is applying this methods to modern problems and modern society in its complex, cage-like structure that everyone is aware of in their bones.

I disagree with the assessment that this is "crazy" or "coming to grips with a fundamental truth is no longer true". It is a rational consequence of applying ancient storytelling methods to a complex triangulation of the new generation's situation, where we are all aware that the government is a corrupt and easily-swayed monster, but social upheaval is horrifically dangerous monster in its own right. It is a problem with no certain solution, so we write.

Re: Modern China Is So Crazy It Needs a New Literary Genre

#27

i don't know about a new genre, but modern china on it's current trajectory would be perfect material for an epic dystopian novel

China is just like Britain during industrialization, just multiple times larger scale and everything is happening faster. People often wonder why people move to cities to work in horrible conditions. They prefer city dystopia and constant calories to hunger.

Real dystopia is happening in the Sahel Belt in Africa and Indian countryside and slums. Unhindered population growth just increases people who face food insecurity in these places.

Re: Modern China Is So Crazy It Needs a New Literary Genre

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You subscribe to the thesis that China's future is grim compared to it's present state? Or that it is a dystopia of epic proportions right now? If you care to elaborate, I am interested in your perspective.

It’s in the process of materialising, the conditions are already set. Firstly, China’s "rise" came from cheap labour and the destruction of the environment. Labour is not so cheap anymore, and the environment is all but destroyed. But that’s okay, China’s already rich, right? Problem is the people are still poor, and much of the money already left the country. China’s GDP (PPP) per capita is less than that of Iraq, b…

Interesting... Thanks!

What city were you in, out of curiosity?

Re: Modern China Is So Crazy It Needs a New Literary Genre

#29
post #5

I think the "crazy" aspect coming into play is an iteration of the world-shattering view that occurs when a child realizes his or her parents are just people, not infallible perfect protectors. This fundamentally changes the view of the world for a person because a fundamental truth is no longer true. This change can be viewed as "crazy" and reality becomes more chaotic in the new world view. I believe the same thing…

Well, Confucianism is as much about choosing the benevolent and harmonious path as it is with relationships and order.

You can't really talk about a Chinese society and only bring up Confucianism as it is also a mix of Daoism and Buddhism - all three of which are at odds with each other.

I would think Daosim and its ideas of the needs and rights of "self" would be closer linked to official corruption than that of Confucianism.

Re: Modern China Is So Crazy It Needs a New Literary Genre

#30
post #5

I think the "crazy" aspect coming into play is an iteration of the world-shattering view that occurs when a child realizes his or her parents are just people, not infallible perfect protectors. This fundamentally changes the view of the world for a person because a fundamental truth is no longer true. This change can be viewed as "crazy" and reality becomes more chaotic in the new world view. I believe the same thing…

> When the citizens realize the infallible groupthink propaganda touted by the ruling class is in fact being touted by people inflicted with the human condition, they also experience a change in world view. As someone who has grown up in and is Chinese, I very much disagree with this sentiment, especially in modern day. There has always been a discordant and uncomfortable relationship with authority in Chinese cultur…

Thanks for sharing. I really enjoyed reading your perspective. Online forums can sometimes oversimplify complex, deeply-rooted problems if the solution appears easy from the outside looking in.
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