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Snowden’s Favorite Cloud Service Now Has a Group Chat App

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Re: Snowden’s Favorite Cloud Service Now Has a Group Chat App

#21

Post by fizzbatter »

joeblow9999 wrote: post #19
fizzbatter wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How's the UX of wire? I'm dying for an app that eventually does three things: 1. Secure. A few of them exist 2. UX. I love Telegram, shame it doesn't fit item #1 3. Temporary. I actually really love Snapchat's ephemeral images and/or messaging. Telegram does a good job at this with auto destructing messages.. but it saves images on the system[1], and i don't trust it removing from the cloud in a timely manner. And of…

Just a friendly reminder: Snapchat is not actually ephemeral. They save everything they just stop showing it to users.

I honestly figure as much with any of these temporary-messengers. Snapchat, Telegram's Secret feature, etc. Really sucks.

Re: Snowden’s Favorite Cloud Service Now Has a Group Chat App

#22

Post by squidlogic »

Good luck to them.

After helping make a slack-style client-side encrypted productivity app (https://balboa.io) that has been on life-support for the last 2 months, I have a lot of respect for people that attempt to make this space more secure.

It's not easy.

A few lessons learned that may be useful to others:

1. Most businesses and consumers are ok with their data being available to companies like Slack and Google because they trust these companies. They feel that regardless of reality, their data is safer with Google or Slack because those companies have a lot more to lose if they fail.

2. The SME space for productivity apps is pretty much the same as the consumer space. You're going to be competing with Google. SMEs are actually really cheap and scrappy: they don’t spend money on non-bottom line affecting stuff. If you want to sell security to them, it has to be essentially free

3. Reputation is more important than (or at least AS important as) your technical chops. You're asking people to trust you. You can show that you are competent by demonstrating a mastery of the technology, but that may not be enough to show that you are also trustworthy.

Re: Snowden’s Favorite Cloud Service Now Has a Group Chat App

#23

Post by zeveb »

curiousgal wrote: post #18

I always cringe when I come across this type of Snowden branding. Can't put my finger on the reason.

From my perspective, it's like branding something with names like Stalin, Dahmer or Ames. I really wish more people would maturely reflect on Snowden's misunderstanding; pride; failure to avail himself of legal means to correct his misunderstanding; and ultimate treason. He has caused extraordinarily grave damage to his nation's security and — since that nation is the sole guarantor of global security — to the security of mankind. From my perspective, he should be despised at worst, pitied at best.

Re: Snowden’s Favorite Cloud Service Now Has a Group Chat App

#24

Post by DKnoll3 »

zeveb wrote: post #23
curiousgal wrote: post #18

I always cringe when I come across this type of Snowden branding. Can't put my finger on the reason.

From my perspective, it's like branding something with names like Stalin, Dahmer or Ames. I really wish more people would maturely reflect on Snowden's misunderstanding; pride; failure to avail himself of legal means to correct his misunderstanding; and ultimate treason. He has caused extraordinarily grave damage to his nation's security and — since that nation is the sole guarantor of global security — to the securi…

I'd love to hear more about his misunderstanding, please continue.

Re: Snowden’s Favorite Cloud Service Now Has a Group Chat App

#25

Post by Siimteller »

fizzbatter wrote: post #9
walterbell wrote: post #6

Is Semaphor focused on group chat (Slack) or are there plans to support private communications (text, audio, video) like Wire? Unlike Signal, Wire allows registration with only an email address (via http://app.wire.com ) and does not force you to upload your contacts to their server. Article: http://arstechnica.com/business/2016/03/go-ahead-make-some-f... Security: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2756350-Wire…

How's the UX of wire? I'm dying for an app that eventually does three things: 1. Secure. A few of them exist 2. UX. I love Telegram, shame it doesn't fit item #1 3. Temporary. I actually really love Snapchat's ephemeral images and/or messaging. Telegram does a good job at this with auto destructing messages.. but it saves images on the system[1], and i don't trust it removing from the cloud in a timely manner. And of…

1. End-to-end using Proteus which is inspired by Axolotl (now Signal). Whitepaper available (wire.com/privacy), independent security review underway). Right now only crypto/comms part open source but there will be more news in this.

2. It's similar. Visually distinct the UX is close enough to what people are used to from other IM apps, I would say.

3. Not. We've experimented with this internally but so far have not decided to release ephemeral aspect to public. Not enough demand. As someone else commented - you can delete content from your devices (syned across if you're logged in from more than one), but content will remain on other people's devices.

Re: Snowden’s Favorite Cloud Service Now Has a Group Chat App

#26

Post by walterbell »

Siimteller wrote: post #25
fizzbatter wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How's the UX of wire? I'm dying for an app that eventually does three things: 1. Secure. A few of them exist 2. UX. I love Telegram, shame it doesn't fit item #1 3. Temporary. I actually really love Snapchat's ephemeral images and/or messaging. Telegram does a good job at this with auto destructing messages.. but it saves images on the system[1], and i don't trust it removing from the cloud in a timely manner. And of…

1. End-to-end using Proteus which is inspired by Axolotl (now Signal). Whitepaper available (wire.com/privacy), independent security review underway). Right now only crypto/comms part open source but there will be more news in this. 2. It's similar. Visually distinct the UX is close enough to what people are used to from other IM apps, I would say. 3. Not. We've experimented with this internally but so far have not d…

Are decrypted messages/assets stored in plaintext in the local device cache, or subject to local device backups? Can the local device cache be manually flushed, made subject to OS-level data protection policy, or eliminated entirely?

Re: Snowden’s Favorite Cloud Service Now Has a Group Chat App

#27

Post by newscracker »

rarrrrrr wrote: post #13
newscracker wrote: post #7

SpiderOak describes this as "Collaboration and messaging for teams." It seems like it's for (for-profit) business teams and not for personal "teams" or groups or non-profits/social groups. I guess the pricing model mentioned in the article is to get businesses that use Slack or Hipchat or other system. I don't like SpiderOak's pricing models in general because of how it seems to oversell and upsell services. For pers…

Thanks for taking a look and for your feedback! Do you have any recommendations for us for alternative pricing? One of the things we tried to accommodate is that teams can be paid for by the individual members instead of one entity having to foot the whole bill. This was one of the common complaints we saw about Slack, where large communities enjoy using it but had no way to pay for better service. You can use Semaph…

Sorry, when I wrote my comment, I could not find any information from your website about the pricing of Semaphor and what the tiers provide (it just says "plans starting from $6"). The article didn't really explain the plans and what they provide either.

It seems like the personal plan pricing is high, considering that "personal" use as such may not be high volume or high storage in general for such an application. But that's just a thought without any information, and as such, not useful. It may be easier to judge it after knowing what it provides in every tier.

My comment on pricing was based on the pricing model you have for the backup service, which is highly nonlinear with a very high jump between tiers to push people to buy into a larger one. The plans at 30GB and 1TB remind me of Dreamhost and oversold plans (not that it's wrong business wise, but it doesn't seem fair from the customer's point of view).

Re: Snowden’s Favorite Cloud Service Now Has a Group Chat App

#28

Post by Siimteller »

walterbell wrote: post #26
Siimteller wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. End-to-end using Proteus which is inspired by Axolotl (now Signal). Whitepaper available (wire.com/privacy), independent security review underway). Right now only crypto/comms part open source but there will be more news in this. 2. It's similar. Visually distinct the UX is close enough to what people are used to from other IM apps, I would say. 3. Not. We've experimented with this internally but so far have not d…

Are decrypted messages/assets stored in plaintext in the local device cache, or subject to local device backups? Can the local device cache be manually flushed, made subject to OS-level data protection policy, or eliminated entirely?

-Messages stored locally use the device encryption/OS-level protection

-Not included in backups

-Can be deleted either manually (per message/per chat) or altogether by uninstalling

Re: Snowden’s Favorite Cloud Service Now Has a Group Chat App

#29

Post by newscracker »

Siimteller wrote: post #25
fizzbatter wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How's the UX of wire? I'm dying for an app that eventually does three things: 1. Secure. A few of them exist 2. UX. I love Telegram, shame it doesn't fit item #1 3. Temporary. I actually really love Snapchat's ephemeral images and/or messaging. Telegram does a good job at this with auto destructing messages.. but it saves images on the system[1], and i don't trust it removing from the cloud in a timely manner. And of…

1. End-to-end using Proteus which is inspired by Axolotl (now Signal). Whitepaper available (wire.com/privacy), independent security review underway). Right now only crypto/comms part open source but there will be more news in this. 2. It's similar. Visually distinct the UX is close enough to what people are used to from other IM apps, I would say. 3. Not. We've experimented with this internally but so far have not d…

> 3. Not. We've experimented with this internally but so far have not decided to release ephemeral aspect to public. Not enough demand. As someone else commented - you can delete content from your devices (syned across if you're logged in from more than one), but content will remain on other people's devices.

You may not see demand, but the userbase for an app like Wire or Signal is itself very small and with almost no demand (compared to just having a messaging app with emojis, GIFs and stickers, for which there is a huge demand - encrypted or not). :)

I use this feature in Telegram called secret chat with the self-destruct timer set to a specific duration to exchange sensitive information like banking information or other things that I don't want to remain for long.

(By trusting Telegram's encryption for secret chats) This makes it quite simple to exchange information which otherwise would involve asking people to delete specific messages or wondering if someone really deleted it or just forgot to do it because of laziness, forgetfulness or just being busy (not attributing malice to the other party here, since the information can be captured for posterity through many other means).

I hope you would consider this feature even if you see "not enough demand", because for those who need it, it's a real blessing to have it!

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