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Europe's robots to become 'electronic persons' under draft plan

reuters.com

21–30 of 56 posts

Re: Europe's robots to become 'electronic persons' under draft plan

#23

It appears the main motivation here is to maintain the same level of taxation on a business that switches from human to robot workers for a significant part of the labour undertaken.

What's the reason to single out robots and not other means of production / capital though? There's no real distinction between a robot and a drilling machine, car, accounting software or anything that improves productivity.

Re: Europe's robots to become 'electronic persons' under draft plan

#24
I agree with VDMA, the proposal is too complicated and too early. The proposal looks like half baked brainstorming. I like the fact that the proposal is too far forward looking. It's better to think these issues 100 years too early than 100 years too late.

Take for example taxation effects

> 23. Bearing in mind the effects that the development and deployment of robotics and AI might have on employment and, consequently, on the viability of the social security systems of the Member States, consideration should be given to the possible need to introduce corporate reporting requirements on the extent and proportion of the contribution of robotics and AI to the economic results of a company for the purpose of taxation and social security contributions; takes the view that in the light of the possible effects on the labour market of robotics and AI a general basic income should be seriously considered, and invites all Member States to do so;

The underlying issue is that the balance between two factors of production is changing. Robots are capital assets and and workers are human capital. Capital assets are replacing human capital.

There is absolutely no reason to treat robots different from other machinery and introduce new reporting for the purpose of taxation and social security contributions. There are more straight-forward ways to move taxation burden from human capital to capital.

Re: Europe's robots to become 'electronic persons' under draft plan

#26
This is an interesting idea. Robots don't need to have human rights. They can have 'robot rights'. In Bolivia, for example, there are rights of nature (applies to living and non-living things) [1]. There is also a strong advocacy for animal rights. The concept of 'right' doesn't only apply to humans.

Corporations have rights of 'artificial persons', which are not identical to rights of 'natural persons'. There are differences, like:

  - Corporations can be owned (enslaved), bought and sold. Humans can only be rented (a job, service).

  - Corporations have tax advantages (deductions, deferring taxes on foreign income etc.) that regular humans don't have.

  - Corporations don't go to prison; they just pay fines when they break the law.

  - Corporations can easily become citizens of most other countries through subsidiaries, while humans cannot easily do that.
.

  [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_Rights_of_Mother_Earth

Re: Europe's robots to become 'electronic persons' under draft plan

#27
post #4

It appears the main motivation here is to maintain the same level of taxation on a business that switches from human to robot workers for a significant part of the labour undertaken.

One problem with this is that one human is a pretty constant unit of work in a way that one robot isn't. What if one robot can do the work of 1000 humans? Or what if a very cheap robot does 1/100 of a human's work? Under this system it sounds like they would be taxed the same way.

"one human is a pretty constant unit of work"

Trivially false; human productivity routinely differs by a factor of thousands to millions.

Re: Europe's robots to become 'electronic persons' under draft plan

#28

It appears the main motivation here is to maintain the same level of taxation on a business that switches from human to robot workers for a significant part of the labour undertaken.

How far will this go?

What happens when the robots organize labor unions? Will this "electronic person' be allowed to vote for representation? Will they be entitled to medical care (I can't help but think of the Wizard of Oz's Tin Man getting his joints oiled...)

Re: Europe's robots to become 'electronic persons' under draft plan

#30
post #3

I can't tell what this is supposed to mean. Taxing employers for using robots as if they were human employees might be a good idea. But giving robots 'rights and obligations' as if they were human is totally insane.

Why tax companies for becoming more productive though. Especially considering that international competitors which are not taxed would take their market share. People often don't realize that the company won't necessarily make more money once it starts using robots - in competetive markets, profits approach zero.

The real problem with automation is that it might (or not) increase the inequality in the value of human labour. The solution is income redistribution.

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