What else is to be expected when working with people who have next to no social skills in organizations that have next to no soul?
The most alienating thing that happened to me as a female engineer
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Re: The most alienating thing that happened to me as a female engineer
#22"If I had walked in, and baseball was showing on the television, it would be completely unthinkable for me to grab the remote and change it to Friends. If I had done that, the outcry would've been thundering. People would question my social skills." Good point. By the way, what a bunch of asholes!
I'm not sure whether you're serious or ironic. This is a social dynamic I've witnessed several times in my life, in male-only and mixed-gender groups. When someone acts against the groups collective will, he or she faces an "outcry". I don't condone this, but to call this out as a gender or diversity issue seems to be a bit of a stretch.
Re: The most alienating thing that happened to me as a female engineer
#23> If I had walked in, and baseball was showing on the television, it would be completely unthinkable for me to grab the remote and change it to Friends. Why? I wonder if she ever tried, or just assumed it was unthinkable. I suspect it was less unthinkable than she thinks it was. From the rest of the story, it sounds like not only was it thinkable for people to try to change the channel, it was expected even. Otherwis…
Exactly.
Life doesn't just walk up to you and hand you opportunties because you grew up this way or that way, if you want to survive you fight. If you don't want to fight, get to the back of the line for resources.
Re: The most alienating thing that happened to me as a female engineer
#24To summarize: Most of the team wants to watch progam A; watching program A during dinner is an established team ritual; author wants to change channel to program B, which is "met with incredulity and laughter". Some time later, program B is running; team members come in and want to change the channel to program A. And that latter event is the most alienating during her time at Microsoft. Wat. It gets better: Because…
> baseball is a man's program, and Friends is a woman's program
Yeah I don't get that part either. When I was a kid everyone watched Friends. We never realized it was supposed to be "for girls".
Hell, the main cast is 3 men and 3 women. Doesn't get more neutral than that.
Re: The most alienating thing that happened to me as a female engineer
#25Wow, if that's the most alienating experience she has had, I am envious. As a male engineer who does not like sports, I've had far worse experiences involving outright ridicule when I asked to watch something besides a game. I didn't blog about it though, because I have real problems far more vexing than not having 100% compatibility with my coworkers.
That's because we don't tolerate dissent in the ranks, you either conform, or you get tough enough to stop taking other people's shit.
Like the downvotes I will take for this post, I'd rather speak my mind than have more 1 bits on some server somewhere.
Re: The most alienating thing that happened to me as a female engineer
#26To summarize: Most of the team wants to watch progam A; watching program A during dinner is an established team ritual; author wants to change channel to program B, which is "met with incredulity and laughter". Some time later, program B is running; team members come in and want to change the channel to program A. And that latter event is the most alienating during her time at Microsoft. Wat. It gets better: Because…
The implication is that the rest of the team felt comfortable enough in that environment that they could change the channel without even having to ask, while OP was loudly ridiculed for wanting to change the channel in a more polite way. The rest of the team felt comfortable with the team dynamic in a way that OP did not, and by ridiculing her, they made it clear that her desires were less important than theirs, thus proving that her sense of discomfort was justified.
To put it as clearly and simply as possible, as if we were examining the results of a double-blind clinical trial:
OP attempts to change the channel. OP is loudly ridiculed in an unpleasant way.
Rando teammate changes the channel. Everyone thinks it's a really funny joke.
What changed? Just the OP. It's pretty obvious the team doesn't like her the way it likes the rest of its members. Is this necessarily an example of sexism, like the seat-belt incident that OP also references? Not necessarily, but it's certainly quite alienating.
Also, while I'm generally sympathetic to the idea that there is a hierarchy of things that are better and things that are worse, how impactful an event is, is ultimately subjective and often not under any conscious control. The time I was mugged in San Francisco honestly made much less of an impression than the time my coworker said he hated all of us and refused to go out for lunch.
Re: The most alienating thing that happened to me as a female engineer
#27As a male who hates sports, I can relate. However, it has nothing to do with gender. The inappropriate touching in car event was more worrying, I think.
I thought the same on first reading.
But now I think the author felt the first more strongly because it made her feel "not even worth consideration" rather than "merely" objectified, which presumably is something she might have more familiarity/ability to cope with.
Re: The most alienating thing that happened to me as a female engineer
#28Want to know the most alienating thing that ever happened to me as a female engineer? Someone told me to suck their dick in front of the CEO. Suck it the fuck up buttercup.
That's a very relaxed outcome... I agree however, sometimes you just need to suck it up and get on with things.
Every day I get treated like dirt. I've been in the industry nearly two decades, and everywhere you go there's arseholes. You've just got to rise above it, take that paycheque home and just think 'fuck em all'.
Re: The most alienating thing that happened to me as a female engineer
#29Wow, if that's the most alienating experience she has had, I am envious. As a male engineer who does not like sports, I've had far worse experiences involving outright ridicule when I asked to watch something besides a game. I didn't blog about it though, because I have real problems far more vexing than not having 100% compatibility with my coworkers.
That's because we don't tolerate dissent in the ranks, you either conform, or you get tough enough to stop taking other people's shit. Like the downvotes I will take for this post, I'd rather speak my mind than have more 1 bits on some server somewhere.
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Re: The most alienating thing that happened to me as a female engineer
#30"If I had walked in, and baseball was showing on the television, it would be completely unthinkable for me to grab the remote and change it to Friends. If I had done that, the outcry would've been thundering. People would question my social skills." Good point. By the way, what a bunch of asholes!
I'm not sure whether you're serious or ironic. This is a social dynamic I've witnessed several times in my life, in male-only and mixed-gender groups. When someone acts against the groups collective will, he or she faces an "outcry". I don't condone this, but to call this out as a gender or diversity issue seems to be a bit of a stretch.
I feel like it is a diversity issue, albeit not of the usual kind, and it is not exclusive to groups whose identity is strongly linked to gender.
All groups will try and preserve their own identity, because if they don't, they stop existing. I'm merely making an observation here, not condoning the actions of groups. This kind of behaviour may seem harmless in some situations, but then also fuels some of the worst instances of discrimination humanity has seen.