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Reflections on Avatar by Ray Kurzweil

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Re: Reflections on Avatar by Ray Kurzweil

#21

Post by yesbabyyes »

jcl wrote: post #8

I thought the "networked tree" thing was actually quite clever. Think of it this way: Suppose you were living in Kurzweil's post-Singularity future, where you have absolute command over biological and nanotechnological mechanics, and you wanted to set up a world-wide communications platform that will last forever. You wouldn't mine precious metals and sling fragile fibers as we have done. Instead, you'd engineer it i…

My feelings exactly. I am quite surprised that Kurzweil misses that. After watching the film, I thought the Na'vi had pretty much mastered the whole "hooking everything to the Internet" thing.

Kurzweil sounds like a child, angry because Cameron didn't let the humans have that advanced technology.

In fact, it's rather Kurzweil who fails to see "beyond" today's technology, and envision a world where technology doesn't look like it does today, but is fused with nature.

And Cameron didn't show that nature can be brutal? Dude, it was full of monsters. The Na'vi could be brutal.

It was a badly written review, and Kurzweil didn't seem to grasp the film at all. He also seems to have a personal grudge with nature. Not cool.

Re: Reflections on Avatar by Ray Kurzweil

#22

Post by 10ren »

CWuestefeld wrote: post #3

While I agree with the thrust of Kurzweil's criticism, there are a couple of things he missed. First, I too was disappointed by the simple, anti-corporate picture it painted. But it wasn't 100% black-and-white. There was a short scene in which Ribisi's character is reluctant to attack, and the army guy bullies him into it. I think the story would have benefited greatly just by expanding and amplifying that scene (alt…

The characters were more filled out in the original, even longer, screenplay http://chud.com/articles/articles/21969/1/PROJECT-880-THE-AV...

Re: Reflections on Avatar by Ray Kurzweil

#23

Post by Tycho »

teilo wrote: post #18
Tycho wrote: post #9

I'm surprised I didn't read more commentary about the Christian symbolism in Avatar - Garden of Eden, Tree of Life, etc. Maybe people no longer look at those symbols as predominantly/exclusively Judeo-Christian?

You can find "Christian" symbolism in anything. For crying out loud, people found it in the Lion King, the Matrix, and even the Ten Commandments! (The last one was a joke.) For it to be "Christian" symbolism, it would have to be quite a bit more explicit than general themes like gardens and trees. Once you start turning fiction into symbolism you can make anything out of everything.

general themes like trees and gardens? in what way, and in what works, are these things themes?

Christian mythology shares a lot of common ideas with other mythology, according to scholars. The Garden of Eden was a paradisiacal forest where humans lived in harmony with nature, where the Tree of Life gave them immortality, so long as they ignored the Tree of Knowledge (at peril of being cast out). In Avatar, the Na'vi live in harmony with nature in a paradisiacal forest with a Great Tree, afforded quasi-immortality by 'spiritual-uplink' to the tree, and in the complete absence of technology. Then along come the evil, technologically advanced humans who of course have been cast out of their own paradisiacal habitat (or destroyed it).

It doesn't sound like the loosest connect ever to me. one of the characters is called 'Grace Augustine'

Re: Reflections on Avatar by Ray Kurzweil

#24

Post by bobbyi »

megaduck wrote: post #10

I think he largely misses the point. Like many other sci-fi pieces, Avatar is a fantasia and not a serious look at our possible future. Much of the human technology was obviously modeled after current American military tech, and that was a deliberate choice. This approach allowed Cameron to tap into current feelings and cultural currents. If things had been more 'realistic', then it would have been alien to modern au…

His criticisms seem to amount to saying that he doesn't like this genre of movie.

Complaining that a fantasy movie doesn't make realistic predictions about the future of technology is like complaining that a romantic comedy didn't have enough action scenes.

Re: Reflections on Avatar by Ray Kurzweil

#25

Post by eagleal »

megaduck wrote: post #10

I think he largely misses the point. Like many other sci-fi pieces, Avatar is a fantasia and not a serious look at our possible future. Much of the human technology was obviously modeled after current American military tech, and that was a deliberate choice. This approach allowed Cameron to tap into current feelings and cultural currents. If things had been more 'realistic', then it would have been alien to modern au…

The point is: Cameron and the Production (together with the distributors) wanted to make a movie that earned fast enough. They didn't want a masterpiece (I think, the original Avatar manuscript, Proejct 880, is actually a lot better that this version[1]).

Because of all the buzz with the "go green" and climate change, this version attracts more people (manuscript freezed before the UNCCC Copenhagen).

[1] http://chud.com/articles/articles/21969/1/PROJECT-880-THE-AV...

Re: Reflections on Avatar by Ray Kurzweil

#26

Post by eagleal »

yesbabyyes wrote: post #21
jcl wrote: post #8

I thought the "networked tree" thing was actually quite clever. Think of it this way: Suppose you were living in Kurzweil's post-Singularity future, where you have absolute command over biological and nanotechnological mechanics, and you wanted to set up a world-wide communications platform that will last forever. You wouldn't mine precious metals and sling fragile fibers as we have done. Instead, you'd engineer it i…

My feelings exactly. I am quite surprised that Kurzweil misses that. After watching the film, I thought the Na'vi had pretty much mastered the whole "hooking everything to the Internet" thing. Kurzweil sounds like a child, angry because Cameron didn't let the humans have that advanced technology. In fact, it's rather Kurzweil who fails to see "beyond" today's technology, and envision a world where technology doesn't…

He looked over the Na'vi bio-networking quite superficially. But his point was that how can a rhinoceros destroy a robot like that. It's like you take an armored elephant against an M1A2 Abrams.

Re: Reflections on Avatar by Ray Kurzweil

#27

Post by goodgoblin »

What is great about this movie review, for me, isn't the exact point-by-point analysis that the author makes, but the fact that author is noted futurist Ray Kurzweil. It would be like having Colin Powell review the Hurt Locker - its just kind of cool.

Re: Reflections on Avatar by Ray Kurzweil

#28

Post by jawsh »

Ray missed the forest for the trees. No movie de-others the other more than this one. More importantly, he utterly misses the tonality, as if he were watching without a heart. Ray, how is it that your analysis explains nothing of the continued appeal of this movie?

Re: Reflections on Avatar by Ray Kurzweil

#29

Post by gnaritas »

tokipin wrote: post #20
megaduck wrote: post #10

I think he largely misses the point. Like many other sci-fi pieces, Avatar is a fantasia and not a serious look at our possible future. Much of the human technology was obviously modeled after current American military tech, and that was a deliberate choice. This approach allowed Cameron to tap into current feelings and cultural currents. If things had been more 'realistic', then it would have been alien to modern au…

that goes for the creature designs as well. there were "dogs" and "horses" in the movie. and in fact i'd argue that goes for the plot itself. a lot of people criticize the plot, but i think it was a very deliberate choice. a "screwy" or "clever" or too-sophisticated plot would have detracted from the rest of the movie

I think a more sophisticated plot would have made a better movie, but it'd have killed the box office. Cameron knows his audience. When you make the most expensive movie ever, you better damn well be shooting for a wide audience; the nerds aren't going to get you a positive return on the investment. Avatar was exactly what it needed to be to justify its existence.

Once this technology becomes cheap enough, then it'll make economic sense to make really smart movies to chase the long tail of very specific niche audiences, but movies cost too much right now to be able to do that effectively. People who like really smart movies are a tiny niche audience. You have to dumb it down or it'll lose money.

Re: Reflections on Avatar by Ray Kurzweil

#30

Post by gnaritas »

philh wrote: post #19

I liked the technology. It looked plausible, not primitive. Exoskeletons that are "beginning to be deployed" can plausibly be widespread in the future. I can believe that guns will continue to operate on the same principals as they have done for a thousand years. They didn't show the same restraint with the nature, unfortunately. Why did everything need six legs and four eyes, and why didn't Na'vi hair evolve to be p…

> Why did everything need six legs and four eyes

For the same reason most animals on earth have 4 legs and two eyes, common genetic ancestry; It was actually a nice touch.

> and why didn't Na'vi hair evolve to be prehensile when they started needing to shove it down the data tubes of irate wildlife

They already had hands, a prehensile hair connection wouldn't likely offer enough advantage to become a primary trait.

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