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The Single Sign On

thedailywtf.com

21–30 of 73 posts

Re: The Single Sign On

#21
post #13

Is it just me, or did was the annoying sales guy completely right about the technology being possible, able to satisfy the client, and successful in closing a profitable deal for the company? What weird dailywtf parallel universe is this?

The WTF is the fact that a single employee would cost a company several tens of thousands of dollars plus several weeks of development time all because that employee didn't want to remember a password.

Re: The Single Sign On

#22
post #12

I don't think it's funny and I don't think either the hospital or the consultants/contractors/employees who built this system are worth their weight in salt. It was a horribly expensive move and had very little benefit to the system or the patients or the hospital. It was a huge waste of money and it is decisions like this that are sending health care costs through the roof. How incompetent must you be to go through…

It's unfair to blame the consultants when it was entirely the client's project manager's fault. It's the PM's responsibility to figure out how many of her company's employees will use it and whether or not it's worth the cost. There's not a whole lot the consultants could have done, even if they had had the foresight to ask "By the way, is this only going to be for one user?" or "Are you really sure you want to do this?"

Re: The Single Sign On

#23

“But we don’t need to change it for everyone,” Craig jumped in, “just one client. Surely, you can do that!” That's probably the most frustrating thing I hear from non-technical people, because they really think they're making it easier. Sadly Kolmogorov complexity is not yet a required course in schools.

Well, in point of fact, they didn't need to change it for everyone, just one client.

Re: The Single Sign On

#24
post #13

Is it just me, or did was the annoying sales guy completely right about the technology being possible, able to satisfy the client, and successful in closing a profitable deal for the company? What weird dailywtf parallel universe is this?

There really isn't anything in this story that would allow us to comment on the profitability or lack thereof

Re: The Single Sign On

#25
post #15
post #7

This situation is virtually made for client-side certificates: 1) You won't need passwords beyond whatever it takes to log in locally. 2) You can assume the hospital computers are physically secured. (Well, I wouldn't, but apparently they do.) 3) The hospital changes machines very infrequently and probably wants a human in the loop every time a machine changes. 4) You can have certificate generation and registration…

I really would love to use client-side certificates everywhere. It's just too much of a pain in the ass to do so. Off the top of my head: - Generating client-side certificates is expensive or a pain in the ass. - Every browser deals with client-side certificates differently. Some give scary warnings, etc. - Firefox and IE can generate keys locally and send a CSR to you, but they do it differently. Safari can't even g…

It's not hard to generate a certificate request. While Firefox and IE may use different routines to do a local key generation, it's certainly not difficult.

The scary warnings you're talking about come up if you're connecting to an "untrusted" site - who's SSL server certificate isn't signed by a known, trusted root CA.

It's certainly the best solution to this problem.

Re: The Single Sign On

#27
Those of you with sales teams, what guidance do you have about sales people promising features that don't exist without getting input from the rest of your team?

Re: The Single Sign On

#28

“But we don’t need to change it for everyone,” Craig jumped in, “just one client. Surely, you can do that!” That's probably the most frustrating thing I hear from non-technical people, because they really think they're making it easier. Sadly Kolmogorov complexity is not yet a required course in schools.

Can you elaborate on Kolmogorov complexity and its relevance to someone who has not encountered the term before? (I have wikied it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolmogorov_complexity but sleep deprivation may be hindering my ability to spot the link)

Kolmogorov Complexity relates to the idea that you can use some kind of computer to encapsulate repeating patterns. When you do this, you have to store the data of your program somewhere and its size relates (sort of) to abstractly just how complex the problem was.

It's also equivalent to Minimum Message Length, so looking into that might help.

Roughly, the relevance remains the same if you just remove "Kolmogorov" from the op's statement. The manager doesn't understand that inventing a whole new solution is complex no matter how many or few people use it.

Which isn't strictly true, but it's definitely a good rule of thumb.

Re: The Single Sign On

#29
post #27

Those of you with sales teams, what guidance do you have about sales people promising features that don't exist without getting input from the rest of your team?

Fine as long as it's for a lot of cash. If the customer is willing to pay for it, I'm happy to jump through crazy hoops.

Re: The Single Sign On

#30

“But we don’t need to change it for everyone,” Craig jumped in, “just one client. Surely, you can do that!” That's probably the most frustrating thing I hear from non-technical people, because they really think they're making it easier. Sadly Kolmogorov complexity is not yet a required course in schools.

Can you elaborate on Kolmogorov complexity and its relevance to someone who has not encountered the term before? (I have wikied it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolmogorov_complexity but sleep deprivation may be hindering my ability to spot the link)

To someone who doesn't understand what's going on, it may seem simpler to make something work for one person than to make it work for lots of people; but in fact the version that works for lots of people may be no less simple. (It may even be simpler, if it's necessary to put in special-case testing to make sure that only one person can use it.)

From an implementer's perspective, the right measure of the complexity of a system is "how much code does it take to implement?" (which is more or less Kolmogorov complexity) rather than "how many things can it do?" or "how wide is its range of possible behaviours?".

A few other remarks on Kolmogorov complexity:

1. "Random" is often best understood as "of high Kolmogorov complexity": a sequence of numbers is random if there's no way to generate it that really saves anything over listing all the numbers; no pattern that makes it predictable. (In practice, what you usually care about is that certain restricted kinds of pattern don't occur, which is kinda like a version of Kolmogorov complexity where you're limited to using programs in a language that isn't Turing-complete.)

2. If you apply Ockham's razor in the form "prefer hypotheses with lower Kolmogorov complexity" together with Bayes' theorem, you get something that in a certain (rather artificial) sense is as effective a problem solver as anything mechanized can be. Unfortunately it's unimplementable in practice, because ...

3. It's more or less always impossible to determine for sure what the Kolmogorov complexity of anything is. (Because to be able to do that you'd need to be able to answer the question "do these two programs do the same thing or not?", and that's equivalent to the halting problem.)

4. (This is controversial, but it's my opinion and that of at least some other contributors here.) When assessing (e.g.) scientific hypotheses for "simplicity" or "parsimony", something like Kolmogorov complexity is the Right Way to understand (un)simplicity; failure to appreciate this is, e.g., what makes some people dislike the "many worlds" interpretation of quantum mechanics on the grounds of extravagance, or think that "God did it" is a useful explanation for otherwise-surprising features of the universe.

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