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N.F.L. Tried to Influence New Concussion Research, Congressional Study Finds

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Re: N.F.L. Tried to Influence New Concussion Research, Congressional Study Finds

#21

Post by ProAm »

some-guy wrote: post #4
cheeze wrote: post #3

The problem that I see with the NFL is that they are essentially a monopoly on American Football. As a fan, I don't really have any choices. I detest many things that the NFL does, can't believe some of the players are allowed to play the game after what they do outside of work, etc. yet I have no option if I want to watch football. Combine this with the fact that NFL football is culturally ingrained in many peoples…

The real question is: if this information about the link between health and playing football becomes more widespread, will people stop playing? People certainly wouldn't stop watching due to the culture that you describe, but I assume that young would-be players may second-guess their decisions. The smaller the talent pool of a sport, the less competitive and skillful it becomes. I'm not convinced that the NFL as an…

The minute there is a successful lawsuit at the high school or collegiate level where the school must pay 1 million plus you will start to see a change. I would guess high schools will drop the sport, and colleges will need to do something to either compensate players or also drop the sport. No one wants that much financial liability on their ledger.

Re: N.F.L. Tried to Influence New Concussion Research, Congressional Study Finds

#22

Post by themartorana »

tlb wrote: post #16
dluan wrote: post #11

In 200 years, when we look back on how science was funded, it will seem backwards and poorly designed. Big money has infiltrated politics, media & journalism, and of course science, but for some reason the public regards scientific research as still somewhat authentic and immune to corruption. This is far from the truth, especially in the U.S., there is hardly any authentic science left. Even those well intentioned r…

The vast majority of science research doesn't affect public policy. It's toward some goal, like making a process work better. Those scientists still need to be honest, but nobody is throwing big money at them to sway their agenda. Then sometimes, suddenly, huge money depends on a question of science. I assume concussion research was like this for a long time: they were just trying to find the best way to heal brains…

When an organization "funds" research that comes to a conclusion said organization knows to be false, that is fraud, outright. We should not accept fraud as "par for the course" or "we should expect no better." Actively attempting to defraud customers, employees, or government should be a crime.

Re: N.F.L. Tried to Influence New Concussion Research, Congressional Study Finds

#23

Post by balls187 »

KevinEldon wrote: post #18

When this issue of safety comes up I wonder why the NFL is being assigned responsibility for protecting the players when the players have the ability to define rules to protect their own safety through their union. The union should fund studies, provide their own doctors and trainers, and fight for the rights to ensure the rules of the game align to their findings and keep their members as safe as they want to be.

It's a good question, and I suspect that it's because the players who could influence that decision (the leaders and highly paid super star athletes), are not incentivized to sour their relationship with the NFL and the team owners over the health and well being of all players.

That is, their individual goal is to maximize the money they make while they play, and fighting for better working conditions may run orthogonal to that.

The NFLPA has a lot of good intentions, but without the support of the league stars, it's difficult to make any reason progress.

Re: N.F.L. Tried to Influence New Concussion Research, Congressional Study Finds

#24

Post by balls187 »

cheeze wrote: post #3

The problem that I see with the NFL is that they are essentially a monopoly on American Football. As a fan, I don't really have any choices. I detest many things that the NFL does, can't believe some of the players are allowed to play the game after what they do outside of work, etc. yet I have no option if I want to watch football. Combine this with the fact that NFL football is culturally ingrained in many peoples…

At the same time, there are a lot of really GREAT NFL players who do great things for their communities. Surely if a few shitheads spoil the NFL for you, the many more that are perennial nominees for the Walter Payton Player Award should make it easier to support.

Re: N.F.L. Tried to Influence New Concussion Research, Congressional Study Finds

#25

Post by cmsmith »

dluan wrote: post #11

In 200 years, when we look back on how science was funded, it will seem backwards and poorly designed. Big money has infiltrated politics, media & journalism, and of course science, but for some reason the public regards scientific research as still somewhat authentic and immune to corruption. This is far from the truth, especially in the U.S., there is hardly any authentic science left. Even those well intentioned r…

>there is hardly any authentic science left

I'm sorry, but what? You list a half dozen of the hottest-button research areas, but those represent (with the exception of pharma) probably less than 2-3% of non-proprietary research. The rest of the iceberg is just normal scientists working on hard problems that aren't going to make anyone rich, and scraping by on whatever money they can find. And keeping the 'science=corrupt' idea out there doesn't make it any easier.

Re: N.F.L. Tried to Influence New Concussion Research, Congressional Study Finds

#26

Post by KevinEldon »

balls187 wrote: post #23
KevinEldon wrote: post #18

When this issue of safety comes up I wonder why the NFL is being assigned responsibility for protecting the players when the players have the ability to define rules to protect their own safety through their union. The union should fund studies, provide their own doctors and trainers, and fight for the rights to ensure the rules of the game align to their findings and keep their members as safe as they want to be.

It's a good question, and I suspect that it's because the players who could influence that decision (the leaders and highly paid super star athletes), are not incentivized to sour their relationship with the NFL and the team owners over the health and well being of all players. That is, their individual goal is to maximize the money they make while they play, and fighting for better working conditions may run orthogo…

I think you're probably right and wonder then if it's not the players themselves who are to blame (at least when the fans/public gets "outraged" about this issue). It's awkward to assign (some) blame to the same class that contains the victims, but it seems in their own pursuit of wealth they might be forfeiting their own safety. Owners would care about the short-term safety of players so that they can realize their investments, but really don't have any long term incentive to care care about player health.

Re: N.F.L. Tried to Influence New Concussion Research, Congressional Study Finds

#27

Post by rcarrigan87 »

karmelapple wrote: post #13
r00fus wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would gladly support a league of slightly worse players if it wasn't as scummy as the NFL has proven itself to be. Isn't this what the USFL and XFL were intended to be? Even if the other league were to focus on niches (like indoor football). I don't see how this changes without some anti-trust kind of oversight by a higher authority than the already profit-focused (with the consequential ethically blinders) NFL.

College football, although it feeds the NFL, still has some rules in place that reduce some of the bad behavior. Of course, there's plenty of problems there, too, but these days I feel much less guilty cheering for a university team than for a pro team.

College football is much worse than the NFL. Players get paid nothing and still burden the same risks mostly. The idea that players are "getting an education" simply just isn't true when you consider some of the majors these guys are enrolled in.

We need a minor league where players can make money. College football is insanely profitable.

Re: N.F.L. Tried to Influence New Concussion Research, Congressional Study Finds

#28

Post by Thriptic »

some-guy wrote: post #4
cheeze wrote: post #3

The problem that I see with the NFL is that they are essentially a monopoly on American Football. As a fan, I don't really have any choices. I detest many things that the NFL does, can't believe some of the players are allowed to play the game after what they do outside of work, etc. yet I have no option if I want to watch football. Combine this with the fact that NFL football is culturally ingrained in many peoples…

The real question is: if this information about the link between health and playing football becomes more widespread, will people stop playing? People certainly wouldn't stop watching due to the culture that you describe, but I assume that young would-be players may second-guess their decisions. The smaller the talent pool of a sport, the less competitive and skillful it becomes. I'm not convinced that the NFL as an…

The biggest risk to the NFL isn't young players finding the game dangerous, but their concerned moms. If the middle school and high school programs die off from parental concern then the NFL is doomed.

Re: N.F.L. Tried to Influence New Concussion Research, Congressional Study Finds

#29

Post by Chinjut »

cmsmith wrote: post #25
dluan wrote: post #11

In 200 years, when we look back on how science was funded, it will seem backwards and poorly designed. Big money has infiltrated politics, media & journalism, and of course science, but for some reason the public regards scientific research as still somewhat authentic and immune to corruption. This is far from the truth, especially in the U.S., there is hardly any authentic science left. Even those well intentioned r…

>there is hardly any authentic science left I'm sorry, but what? You list a half dozen of the hottest-button research areas, but those represent (with the exception of pharma) probably less than 2-3% of non-proprietary research. The rest of the iceberg is just normal scientists working on hard problems that aren't going to make anyone rich, and scraping by on whatever money they can find. And keeping the 'science=cor…

In their defense, they did note "publish or perish" as a "system of perverse incentives", which presumably affects a far broader swath of science than the few politicized topics they mentioned.

Re: N.F.L. Tried to Influence New Concussion Research, Congressional Study Finds

#30

Post by newjersey »

askldfhjkasfhd wrote: post #19
karmelapple wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

College football, although it feeds the NFL, still has some rules in place that reduce some of the bad behavior. Of course, there's plenty of problems there, too, but these days I feel much less guilty cheering for a university team than for a pro team.

I disagree. At least in the NFL, players are making (incredibly good) money. In the NCAA, so many "student"-athletes are taken advantage of much more than NFL players.

I absolutely agree. The situation would be different if the coaches/college administrators didn't make so much money.

I still wonder: would it break any laws for a university system to institute a pay cap across the board?

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