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Antibiotics Are Dead; Long Live Antibiotics

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Re: Antibiotics Are Dead; Long Live Antibiotics

#21

Am I the only one who thought this part was weird? "And as if that were not enough, here’s the kicker. This was not some kind of massive high-throughput screen of the kind we so often hear about in biomedical research these days. The researchers tried this approach just once, in essentially their back yard, on a very small scale, and it STILL worked the first time. What that tells us is that it can work again—and aga…

Because they took it out for a short test drive and found a viable class of antibiotic compounds without really trying very hard. That is something that would have been expected to take years and a lot of money prior to their advance.

It isn't just antibiotics. There are groups using this and analogous methods based on the same conceptual breakthrough to mine the bacterial world for all sorts of stuff, and now their efforts are about a hundred times more effective and efficient.

Re: Antibiotics Are Dead; Long Live Antibiotics

#22

Am I the only one who thought this part was weird? "And as if that were not enough, here’s the kicker. This was not some kind of massive high-throughput screen of the kind we so often hear about in biomedical research these days. The researchers tried this approach just once, in essentially their back yard, on a very small scale, and it STILL worked the first time. What that tells us is that it can work again—and aga…

> The point of science is doing it many times, at large scale, in a repeatable fashion. That's when we have confidence in the way things work.

Science says nothing about scale, only repeatability.

Unless if you're going to consider cosmology and the study of subatomic particles (e.g. particle colliders), among many other fields, entirely bunk.

Sometimes you can't test things at the scale of nature, and that's ok. We made it this far without doing so.

Re: Antibiotics Are Dead; Long Live Antibiotics

#23

Am I the only one who thought this part was weird? "And as if that were not enough, here’s the kicker. This was not some kind of massive high-throughput screen of the kind we so often hear about in biomedical research these days. The researchers tried this approach just once, in essentially their back yard, on a very small scale, and it STILL worked the first time. What that tells us is that it can work again—and aga…

Because they took it out for a short test drive and found a viable class of antibiotic compounds without really trying very hard. That is something that would have been expected to take years and a lot of money prior to their advance. It isn't just antibiotics. There are groups using this and analogous methods based on the same conceptual breakthrough to mine the bacterial world for all sorts of stuff, and now their…

Yes, exactly.

When you go fishing and the very moment your hook touches the water you catch a big fat fish, well, that's probably one hell of a water hole.

And in this case they caught one hell of a fish.

Re: Antibiotics Are Dead; Long Live Antibiotics

#24
post #20
post #5

"But this pessimism rests entirely on one assumption: that we have no realistic prospect of developing new classes of antibiotics any time soon, antibiotics that our major threats have not yet seen and thus not acquired resistance to." Uh, no. The "pessimism" (as it were) doesn't extend from that assumption. It extends from the fact that very few people are doing the basic research anymore, and even fewer companies a…

When people will start dying en masse from this you'll see how suddenly the priorities will change. Sure, it's a tragedy right now that the incentives are not properly aligned, but I wouldn't worry about doomsday scenarios.

When people will start dying en masse from this you'll see how suddenly the priorities will change.

Someday, I hope to live in an educated, industrialized, humanist society that can change policy direction without large numbers of people dying. (Of course, I already do. The answer is lots of $$$, as usual.)

Re: Antibiotics Are Dead; Long Live Antibiotics

#25
post #14

One thing to consider is Antibiotics are not actually need very often. I had intestional surgery a while back and they never put me on a course of antibiotics. Now they probably gave me a shot of something in surgery, but we can do a lot to minimize the risks without them. They are often used as a crutch and end up promoting sloppy technique. Basically infections are a sign you did something wrong, removing that feed…

> Basically infections are a sign you did something wrong, removing that feedback promotes problems.

Having surgery at all meets any standard of "you did something wrong".

Re: Antibiotics Are Dead; Long Live Antibiotics

#27
post #6

What I love about this article is that it demonstrates once again that some discoveries are actually pretty awesome. If I am not careful the unrelenting stories of future calamity can weigh me down, and yet I know intellectually that generally equal part bad and good things happen over time. This is an excellent example of a "good" thing which wasn't even considered in papers and articles written about the coming ant…

>and yet I know intellectually that generally equal part bad and good things happen over time.

There's actually nothing statistically, logically or otherwise necessary about this.

Humanity could be wiped out in 10 years for all we know.

Re: Antibiotics Are Dead; Long Live Antibiotics

#28
post #14

One thing to consider is Antibiotics are not actually need very often. I had intestional surgery a while back and they never put me on a course of antibiotics. Now they probably gave me a shot of something in surgery, but we can do a lot to minimize the risks without them. They are often used as a crutch and end up promoting sloppy technique. Basically infections are a sign you did something wrong, removing that feed…

> Basically infections are a sign you did something wrong, removing that feedback promotes problems. Having surgery at all meets any standard of "you did something wrong".

Less so than you might think. Unless you want to suggest bad DNA is some how your fault. However, I am speaking from the surgeons perspective.

Re: Antibiotics Are Dead; Long Live Antibiotics

#29
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Basically infections are a sign you did something wrong, removing that feedback promotes problems. Having surgery at all meets any standard of "you did something wrong".

Less so than you might think. Unless you want to suggest bad DNA is some how your fault. However, I am speaking from the surgeons perspective.

In the sense of your comment, that "infections are a sign you did something wrong", having surgery is "doing something wrong". Your body has no plan for you to undergo surgery; it relies on the assumption that your skin separates your inside from your outside and any contact between inside and outside not mediated by your skin or your stomach is a catastrophic failure.

Re: Antibiotics Are Dead; Long Live Antibiotics

#30
post #6

What I love about this article is that it demonstrates once again that some discoveries are actually pretty awesome. If I am not careful the unrelenting stories of future calamity can weigh me down, and yet I know intellectually that generally equal part bad and good things happen over time. This is an excellent example of a "good" thing which wasn't even considered in papers and articles written about the coming ant…

I would say the good things have gradually begun outweighing the bad in the last two centuries. The world has made obvious visible progress on every continent in countless metrics. Long way to go, but nonetheless.

To further illustrate this reality, I point thee to Hans Rosling.
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