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Stoned drivers are safer than drunk ones, new federal data show

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Re: Stoned drivers are safer than drunk ones, new federal data show

#21

Post by atom-morgan »

mankyd wrote: post #13
beat wrote: post #7

Alcohol has two synergetic problems for drivers... it reduces reflexes and increases confidence, simultaneously. Less capable, and more aggressive. No wonder it's so awful for drivers. Marijuana doesn't significantly impair reflexes (as generations of musicians have shown). As for judgment, it tends to make users more cautious, not more aggressive. They're not trying to get around that car in front of them to blow th…

> Marijuana doesn't significantly impair reflexes (as generations of musicians have shown). As an aside, is music really reliant on reflexes like this? I would assume that the beat of a song gives one plenty of forewarning as to when a melody might change. And that assumes that the rhythm of a melody doesn't put you in am altered, hypnotic state in other ways.

> As an aside, is music really reliant on reflexes like this?

Absolutely. The ability to recover from a mistake without anyone knowing.

Re: Stoned drivers are safer than drunk ones, new federal data show

#22

Post by ZanyProgrammer »

JPKab wrote: post #3

As a full supporter of cannabis legalization, I'm also a big supporter of a technology that can instantly detect whether someone's reflexes are impaired by cannabis. Notice that I'm focusing on whether or not they are impaired, as opposed to the amount in their bloodstream. The point being that people that use cannabis regularly for medical reasons don't seem to be impaired by it at all, while newer or more occasiona…

I'd assume regular medical users have gotten very used to the effects of pot, as opposed to noobs.

Re: Stoned drivers are safer than drunk ones, new federal data show

#23

Post by amelius »

JPKab wrote: post #3

As a full supporter of cannabis legalization, I'm also a big supporter of a technology that can instantly detect whether someone's reflexes are impaired by cannabis. Notice that I'm focusing on whether or not they are impaired, as opposed to the amount in their bloodstream. The point being that people that use cannabis regularly for medical reasons don't seem to be impaired by it at all, while newer or more occasiona…

> a technology that can instantly detect whether someone's reflexes are impaired

I'm not sure if that would work in practice. As mentioned, alcohol makes someone more confident, or more likely to do stupid things. The test should incorporate that.

From another point of view, the alcohol tricks you into thinking your reflexes are still normal, while they are not. And this is the dangerous part, not the fact that your reflexes are somewhat lower (and perhaps comparable to an old lady who is still perfectly capable to drive safely).

Re: Stoned drivers are safer than drunk ones, new federal data show

#24

Post by emeraldd »

mankyd wrote: post #13
beat wrote: post #7

Alcohol has two synergetic problems for drivers... it reduces reflexes and increases confidence, simultaneously. Less capable, and more aggressive. No wonder it's so awful for drivers. Marijuana doesn't significantly impair reflexes (as generations of musicians have shown). As for judgment, it tends to make users more cautious, not more aggressive. They're not trying to get around that car in front of them to blow th…

> Marijuana doesn't significantly impair reflexes (as generations of musicians have shown). As an aside, is music really reliant on reflexes like this? I would assume that the beat of a song gives one plenty of forewarning as to when a melody might change. And that assumes that the rhythm of a melody doesn't put you in am altered, hypnotic state in other ways.

The reflexes come in with being able to make complex and delicate movements required to actually use an instrument. It's kind of like touch typing but more so, for music to sound smooth those movements have to just "happen" rather than being explicitly thought out.

Re: Stoned drivers are safer than drunk ones, new federal data show

#25

Post by singlow »

criley2 wrote: post #11
throwaway2016a wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in the US you can get a ticket for going under the speed limit if it is deemed to be impeding traffic even if there is no posted minimum limit. Especially if it is a multi-lane road and you are not in the rightmost lane.

>At least in the US you can get a ticket As a US citizen I will tell you this is false. We have basically no national traffic laws. Your local state, city or other local government may have passed a law like this. For example, in my area, it was made illegal to stay in the left lane moving more slowly than those behind you -- you must yield to the right if they want to go more quickly. But some 99% of Americans do no…

Texas has a rule that you may not impede traffic by going below the limit.

http://codes.findlaw.com/tx/transportation-code/transp-sect-...

Re: Stoned drivers are safer than drunk ones, new federal data show

#27

Post by mankyd »

singlow wrote: post #16
mankyd wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Marijuana doesn't significantly impair reflexes (as generations of musicians have shown). As an aside, is music really reliant on reflexes like this? I would assume that the beat of a song gives one plenty of forewarning as to when a melody might change. And that assumes that the rhythm of a melody doesn't put you in am altered, hypnotic state in other ways.

Jazz musicians and other improvisational music require fast reactions to other players.

But I still wonder if that's not a different skill. Significant changes to the melody still come on the beat. The same can't be said to you driving down the road and the car ahead of you slams on the brakes.

Talented musicians of all sort can learn how to improvise, but it's a learned skill, not simply "hey, different music means I do something different!" It's an acquired skill that means training your ear to create cohesive melodies.

Re: Stoned drivers are safer than drunk ones, new federal data show

#28

Post by bryanlarsen »

criley2 wrote: post #11
throwaway2016a wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in the US you can get a ticket for going under the speed limit if it is deemed to be impeding traffic even if there is no posted minimum limit. Especially if it is a multi-lane road and you are not in the rightmost lane.

>At least in the US you can get a ticket As a US citizen I will tell you this is false. We have basically no national traffic laws. Your local state, city or other local government may have passed a law like this. For example, in my area, it was made illegal to stay in the left lane moving more slowly than those behind you -- you must yield to the right if they want to go more quickly. But some 99% of Americans do no…

You're right, it's not national. But as far as I'm aware, all states have general rules against impeding traffic. Many don't have explicit laws against moving too slow in the left lane, but the general law can and will be used against you for egregious violations.

Re: Stoned drivers are safer than drunk ones, new federal data show

#29

Post by JoeAltmaier »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #8
riggins wrote: post #2

But what about their propensity to drive really slow?

Slowing down is the single most effective thing to reduce traffic accidents and injury. Not good for efficiency or smooth flow, sure. But can't claim its not safer.

Its a matter of degree; of course stopping on the freeway is not a good idea. Here's a stat:

Samuel C. Tignor and Davey Warren. "Driver Speed Behavior on U.S. Streets and Highways." Institute of Transportation Engineers: 1990 Compendium of Technical Papers, 1990 August, p. 85. "The accident involvement rates on streets and highways in urban areas was highest for the slowest 5 percent of traffic, lowest for traffic in the 30 to 95 percentile range and increased for the fastest 5 percent of traffic."

Re: Stoned drivers are safer than drunk ones, new federal data show

#30

Post by mankyd »

emeraldd wrote: post #24
mankyd wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Marijuana doesn't significantly impair reflexes (as generations of musicians have shown). As an aside, is music really reliant on reflexes like this? I would assume that the beat of a song gives one plenty of forewarning as to when a melody might change. And that assumes that the rhythm of a melody doesn't put you in am altered, hypnotic state in other ways.

The reflexes come in with being able to make complex and delicate movements required to actually use an instrument. It's kind of like touch typing but more so, for music to sound smooth those movements have to just "happen" rather than being explicitly thought out.

Right, but that seems more like fine motor skills than reflexes, no?
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