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The Hidden Workforce Expanding Tesla's Factory

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Re: The Hidden Workforce Expanding Tesla's Factory

#21

Post by dominotw »

slicktux wrote: post #2

It is a rather complex problem and it needs to be solved, but I do not see how it's Tesla's fault. . . First off Tesla chose Eisenmann for the expansion and in return they subcontracted another company which then brought in the the workers for the illegal work. Given those circumstances I believe Eisenmann knew what was going on if not they would have never made such a low bid, because they would have risked paying o…

>What would be a good solution for this problem of H1-B workers being used for cheap labor which in term is stealing Americans jobs?

Review and proper enforcement of 'prevailing wage' requirements.

People in this article were not using H1B though.

>Tesla proudly employs nearly 6,000 American workers from the Bay Area

And for everything else we use subcontractors. Fucking disgusting.

Re: The Hidden Workforce Expanding Tesla's Factory

#22

Post by dominotw »

forgetsusername wrote: post #15
slicktux wrote: post #2

It is a rather complex problem and it needs to be solved, but I do not see how it's Tesla's fault. . . First off Tesla chose Eisenmann for the expansion and in return they subcontracted another company which then brought in the the workers for the illegal work. Given those circumstances I believe Eisenmann knew what was going on if not they would have never made such a low bid, because they would have risked paying o…

> Therefore, Eisenmann is responsible and Tesla should not be held accountable. Why not? Otherwise, follow the logic: sub-contractor after sub-contractor until you reach the bottom and you've got some fly-by-night operation that you can't hold accountable. Everyone involved shares the blame, including Tesla

>Why not?

Because its govt's job to enforce labor laws not Tesla's .

Maybe Tesla is responsible from a moral pov .

Re: The Hidden Workforce Expanding Tesla's Factory

#23

Post by leeoniya »

dominotw wrote: post #21
slicktux wrote: post #2

It is a rather complex problem and it needs to be solved, but I do not see how it's Tesla's fault. . . First off Tesla chose Eisenmann for the expansion and in return they subcontracted another company which then brought in the the workers for the illegal work. Given those circumstances I believe Eisenmann knew what was going on if not they would have never made such a low bid, because they would have risked paying o…

>What would be a good solution for this problem of H1-B workers being used for cheap labor which in term is stealing Americans jobs? Review and proper enforcement of 'prevailing wage' requirements. People in this article were not using H1B though. >Tesla proudly employs nearly 6,000 American workers from the Bay Area And for everything else we use subcontractors. Fucking disgusting.

good 'ole friend Plausible Deniability.

except, s/plausible/voluntary

Re: The Hidden Workforce Expanding Tesla's Factory

#24

Post by venomsnake »

adt2bt wrote: post #4

Wow, I did not expect to see this. I imagined Tesla, a poster boy for American innovation, would do its best to stay away from shady labor practices. To their credit, they claim to know nothing about how their contractors employ people.

>To their credit, they claim to know nothing about how their contractors employ people.

Captain Renault: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here! [a croupier hands Renault a pile of money] Croupier: Your winnings, sir.

Re: The Hidden Workforce Expanding Tesla's Factory

#26

Post by bardworx »

dominotw wrote: post #21
slicktux wrote: post #2

It is a rather complex problem and it needs to be solved, but I do not see how it's Tesla's fault. . . First off Tesla chose Eisenmann for the expansion and in return they subcontracted another company which then brought in the the workers for the illegal work. Given those circumstances I believe Eisenmann knew what was going on if not they would have never made such a low bid, because they would have risked paying o…

>What would be a good solution for this problem of H1-B workers being used for cheap labor which in term is stealing Americans jobs? Review and proper enforcement of 'prevailing wage' requirements. People in this article were not using H1B though. >Tesla proudly employs nearly 6,000 American workers from the Bay Area And for everything else we use subcontractors. Fucking disgusting.

> And for everything else we use subcontractors. Fucking disgusting.

That's a very strong sentiment, sprinkled with ignorance.

I work in hospitality industry and seen the underbelly of food production and construction of QSR locations. I speak from experience.

Sure, everyone wants contracted, union labor and hire Americans but no one is willing to pay for it.

Subcontracting is "Fucking Disgusting"? Okay, how would you like to pay 30% more for your food, clothing, and electronics? Doesn't sound so appealing? Well that's unfortunate.

This isn't a complex problem - the economics doesn't work; American labor isn't hired because American's don't want to pay more for products.

> Review and proper enforcement of 'prevailing wage' requirements.

That is so simple to write...our HR department has to check every employee against many different services to ensure that they're legally allowed to work and are not felons, while constantly hiring. They're over worked and do not have adequate resources. Hiring more folks for HR is out of the question because the business has to be profitable...because...that's how the world works.

However, if we raise prices, we could "Review and proper enforcement of 'prevailing wage' requirements" but then we would be out of business because no one would purchase our product since it would be too expensive.

Statements are easy to make, solutions are tough.

Re: The Hidden Workforce Expanding Tesla's Factory

#27

Post by bardworx »

ams6110 wrote: post #7
slicktux wrote: post #2

It is a rather complex problem and it needs to be solved, but I do not see how it's Tesla's fault. . . First off Tesla chose Eisenmann for the expansion and in return they subcontracted another company which then brought in the the workers for the illegal work. Given those circumstances I believe Eisenmann knew what was going on if not they would have never made such a low bid, because they would have risked paying o…

I flatly do not believe that Tesla did not know what was going on. The bid being as low as it was means that the savings were coming from somewhere. Presumably the materials used all had specifications so hard to cut corners there. That leaves labor. Come on, maybe they aren't legally responsible but morally and ethically they made a choice here.

Not entirely. Many companies who bid out projects during "off times" would receive preferential bids. In colder climates, if your construction begins in the colder months, construction companies will bid lower since there is less work and do their best to make little to no profit on the job.

That's fairly standard. The downside, most construction companies will have many COs (Change Order)to supplement the work.

Just because a bid is lower doesn't mean the subcontractor is hiring illegal labor.

Parent company that accepts bid isn't morally responsible to check on their subcontractors. If parent company is responsible, imagine the possibilities? Ever subcontractor would then blame the parent company for just about everything since they're not held responsible.

Did Tesla realize that labor wasn't "legal" during the process? Probably...but what now? Stop building the factory? They have investors that don't care about morals or ethics.

Re: The Hidden Workforce Expanding Tesla's Factory

#28

Post by bardworx »

pingec wrote: post #3

5$ per hour is practically minimum wage here in Slovenia except that you also get compulsory health insurance and pension contribution on top of that. And it's not extremely hard to get a job. I wonder why anyone would repeatedly fly to the US to work for that money. He was maybe getting or was promised something more. Also funny how they call us an "impoverished country". In my eyes an average Joe has much better qu…

> Also funny how they call us an "impoverished country". In my eyes an average Joe has much better quality of life in Slovenia than in the US :). I would say the problems start if you want to me more than the average Joe.

Creating labels and positioning the individual who was hurt as a victim, coming from an "impoverished country" is more attractive then reporting a different ("positive") point of view.

In defense of their reporting, however, they're measuring minimum wage of Slovenia vs minimum wage in USA, which is less, with no context (that you supplied)

Re: The Hidden Workforce Expanding Tesla's Factory

#29

Post by dominotw »

bardworx wrote: post #26
dominotw wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What would be a good solution for this problem of H1-B workers being used for cheap labor which in term is stealing Americans jobs? Review and proper enforcement of 'prevailing wage' requirements. People in this article were not using H1B though. >Tesla proudly employs nearly 6,000 American workers from the Bay Area And for everything else we use subcontractors. Fucking disgusting.

> And for everything else we use subcontractors. Fucking disgusting. That's a very strong sentiment, sprinkled with ignorance. I work in hospitality industry and seen the underbelly of food production and construction of QSR locations. I speak from experience. Sure, everyone wants contracted, union labor and hire Americans but no one is willing to pay for it. Subcontracting is "Fucking Disgusting"? Okay, how would yo…

I was talking about govt enforcing prevailing wage requirements that are already in place for H1B. This is one of the many loopholes that shady employers take advantage of.

Re: The Hidden Workforce Expanding Tesla's Factory

#30

Post by bardworx »

billyjeans wrote: post #13

This is always a usual problem for tech companies. Truth be told they tell everyone "oh we are doing this", but in reality they are just sub-contracting it. I for a fact know that most popular games are sub-contracted.

That's true with "most" things. In American business culture, there is so much pressure on companies from investors that they have to take every short cut possible to make their numbers.

In addition, the pressure from other countries that are able to produce products at a lower cost because of different labor laws/market, it becomes impossible to "do the right thing".

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