Live data from Hacker News

Trump-Sanders Signal an Oligarchy on the Brink of Collapse

evonomics.com

21–30 of 79 posts

Re: Trump-Sanders Signal an Oligarchy on the Brink of Collapse

#21
This article is massive clickbait, but I'll comment anyway.

Trump and Sanders are manifestations of a long-term trend that has been building at least since the 2008 Financial Crisis. People are dissatisfied with the options they are presented politically, and economic participation is at historically low levels. We have never been more prosperous, but at the same time that prosperity and wealth gains are not only not very evenly distributed(they never really were), but large swaths of society are completely left out of them. In the early half of the century, it was a democratizing effect that everyone was drinking a 10c glass of Coke. This is just one example, you can also see it with iPhoneistas vs cheap Android phones, etc. etc. Now the hip drinks are craft beers and fine wines, and a former factory worker forced to work menial part time jobs is looked down upon for drinking what he can afford, Bud lite and coke. There are major class shiftings and reorganizations going on, and people living in and near large prosperous cities have largely been immune and isolated from it.

We dismiss and ignore their rise at our own peril.

Re: Trump-Sanders Signal an Oligarchy on the Brink of Collapse

#23

1980-2000s: Reagan removes the Fairness Doctrine... TIL Rush Limbaugh will cause the end of the world. Hilarious.

Not the end of the world, but I do see him historically as the beginning of the end for the Republican Party. I was in college when I first heard of Rush Limbaugh. Before him, Republicans were these very stuffy folks like William Buckley Jr, who came to our campus and bored many to tears with highly-intellectual and logical arguments that were extremely challenging and generated a great deal of cognitive dissonance for me. Republicans were considered the intellectual party back in those days.

Then Limbaugh came along, never referencing anything he said or wrote, constantly contradicting himself and making offensive cracks like calling a 12-year-old Chelsea Clinton the White House dog. My young Republican friends loved him, chanted slogans like "Rush is Right!" and labeled themselves "dittoheads." Anyone who pointed out Limbaugh's contradictory logic or took issue with his offensive statements was dismissed as being "politically correct."

Flash forward 25 years and Limbaugh is now considered tame in comparison to Coulter, Savage, and some of the other voices that have followed in his footsteps. I was sad to hear that William Buckley, who I still admire intellectually even if many of his positions are anathema to me, was largely forgotten and ignored in his final years. Trump's nomination would not be possible without Limbaugh laying the groundwork for him two and a half decades ago.

Some on the left are gloating about it, but it frightens me. America needs a plurality of voices debating issues and policy logically in order to thrive. We can't let it become one party of power on the left and an easily demonized opposition party on the right, but with the Republican party falling apart... that's the way it seems to be going.

*Edited for grammar.

Re: Trump-Sanders Signal an Oligarchy on the Brink of Collapse

#24
post #21

This article is massive clickbait, but I'll comment anyway. Trump and Sanders are manifestations of a long-term trend that has been building at least since the 2008 Financial Crisis. People are dissatisfied with the options they are presented politically, and economic participation is at historically low levels. We have never been more prosperous, but at the same time that prosperity and wealth gains are not only not…

>Now the hip drinks are craft beers and fine wines, and a former factory worker forced to work menial part time jobs is looked down upon for drinking what he can afford, Bud lite and coke.

Two related articles that may inform your discussions of this topic:

http://www.vox.com/2016/4/21/11451378/smug-american-liberali...

http://www.stirjournal.com/2016/04/01/i-know-why-poor-whites...

For context, and lest anyone think I'm taking a cheap shot at liberalism or progressivism, I definitely see myself in the first article. Particularly in my teens and early twenties, I was about as smug as they came. Then I went meta-smug by posing as an angry libertarian, and was utterly insufferable. These days, I think and feel much the same, I just don't go out of my way to socially advertise it (or I put more effort into not making others feel small?).

>There are major class shiftings and reorganizations going on, and people living in and near large prosperous cities have largely been immune and isolated from it.

One place a prosperous urbanite might bump into this shift is when a city winds up with a commuter police force due in part to high rent.

Re: Trump-Sanders Signal an Oligarchy on the Brink of Collapse

#25
post #19
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obama was an "outsider". It's been a while since campaigns are not won by just money. My theory is the rich elites don't want to wield their power through governments anymore.

Obama raised more than any president in history from what I understand.

He was such an overwhelming favorite by the end which is what I believe fueled his donations. No point in funding a loser.

Re: Trump-Sanders Signal an Oligarchy on the Brink of Collapse

#26

1980-2000s: Reagan removes the Fairness Doctrine... TIL Rush Limbaugh will cause the end of the world. Hilarious.

Not the end of the world, but I do see him historically as the beginning of the end for the Republican Party. I was in college when I first heard of Rush Limbaugh. Before him, Republicans were these very stuffy folks like William Buckley Jr, who came to our campus and bored many to tears with highly-intellectual and logical arguments that were extremely challenging and generated a great deal of cognitive dissonance f…

Early in his career, Rush Limbaugh was funny and made political news worth listening to. Yes, he was heavily biased towards the right.

Later (when Clinton won the Whitehouse in '92), he became bitter and hateful ... I stopped listening to him when I realized that hearing that content for three hours a day (while at work) was making me bitter and hateful too.

As an aside, the eight years of the Clinton presidency look pretty good compared to the last 16 years.

Re: Trump-Sanders Signal an Oligarchy on the Brink of Collapse

#27
>"What we’re now facing is a combination of: 1) people who still believe; and 2) people who doubt, but: a) would have to sacrifice their livelihood to act on it; or, b) are willing to leave the system but don’t necessarily know what comes next."

We're approaching a tipping point where one of these groups is bigger than all the others . . .

Re: Trump-Sanders Signal an Oligarchy on the Brink of Collapse

#28
To be fair, the "New Deal" regime was perceived to be failing circa 1970.

For instance, the New Deal left racism intact in the South, there was the Vietnam war, the "Spirit of '68", high inflation, a huge expansion of regulations leading to more problems (for instance the 1974 model year of automobiles were awful because they had to satisfy stricter emission standards without a perfected catalytic converter, etc.) There was the cult boom and the strange fact that "The Greening of America" sold millions of copies.

In 1979 Merril Lynch was a penny stock, in many ways capitalism seemed to be on the ropes. If you don't believe me look at "Legitimation Crisis" by Habermas.

One contemporary diagnosis of the condition was that there was "too much democracy" and if you look at what happened, all of a sudden the door got slammed on people like Ralph Nader and the range of what you could ask Washington for diminished over the 1980s, with the 1990s sealing the deal -- at that point the lobbying system became almost entirely focuses around tax breaks for special interests with an occasional scam like "Medicare Advantage".

For instance in the 1980s you still saw environmental legislation being passed, but once Clinton got in the Republicans ran fanatical resistance until getting solid control of the House and since then there has been gridlock.

People like the Koch brothers threw unlimited money at promoting right wing ideas, Fox News has a 24 hours hate whenever there is a democrat in the White House, etc.

This has led to a new condition of ungovernability which is as much a riot of the rich (who funded 17 losers to run for the Republican party because Conservatism makes them feel warm and fuzzy) as a riot of the middle class.

"Boaty McBoatface" sealed the deal for Brexit because it symbolizes what "democracy" is about these days. They ask your opinion, because they want to look legitimate, but they don't honor it.

Re: Trump-Sanders Signal an Oligarchy on the Brink of Collapse

#29
post #20
post #2

I find somewhat hilarious that the supposed harbingers of this "collapse" are staunch members of said "oligarchy" (an elitist billionaire and a career politician). Revolutions are not as they once were...

Bernie is a career politician trying to do the right thing though.

Sorry but Bernie can be quite the hypocrite.

He's taken his fair share in corporate and special interest money e.g. agriculture, has a notable record of pork barreling for his home state, is one of the few candidates in recent history not to release a reasonable number of tax returns and his campaign has a very concerning amount of illegal donations.

Every candidate is incredibly weak and flawed this election including Bernie.

Post reply on HN