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Why OpenBSD Is Important to Me

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Re: Why OpenBSD Is Important to Me

#21

Post by cm3 »

dijit wrote: post #18
zxcvcxz wrote: post #15

I don't know how anyone can lump Linux in with Windows when it comes to security from NSA spying and then say OpenBSD is a good alternative. HN seems to love the anti-Linux FUD though. Anything that further fractures the OSS community is upvoted fast. I like the BSDs too, but there are a ton of reasons Linux is the most popular kernel in the world, it's not just because the NSA makes it so.

it's not just that though, there's the push for systemd which was not welcomed and alienated a lot of sysadmin folk who frequent hackernews. personally I felt rather shafted by systemd, not because it's bad, but because my arguments were never even met, it was just a brushing off from some of the people who had already accepted it. So I tried the BSD's and they were significantly better than I imagined they would be,…

There's also systemd's constant regressions and awkward interfaces and limited functionality when they replace existing solutions. It should have stopped at unifying init scripts, although upstart had that, SMF had it, so it's great to see nosh being cross-platform and able to import system unit files.

Re: Why OpenBSD Is Important to Me

#22

Post by cm3 »

vox_mollis wrote: post #20
dijit wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's not just that though, there's the push for systemd which was not welcomed and alienated a lot of sysadmin folk who frequent hackernews. personally I felt rather shafted by systemd, not because it's bad, but because my arguments were never even met, it was just a brushing off from some of the people who had already accepted it. So I tried the BSD's and they were significantly better than I imagined they would be,…

Indeed. If systemd were just a parallelized init system with better unit management, far more would be okay with this shift. But that wasn't enough. They had to hijack bootloading, logging, device management, network, etc. For reasons that nobody seems to be able to actually explicate.

They want to control it all to give the best possible user experience but fail short and introduce bugs I've never had since the first day I've installed Linux in the 90s.

Re: Why OpenBSD Is Important to Me

#23

Post by zymhan »

I'm just getting started on setting up an OpenBSD router that I want to be the basis for making sure much of my data is secure. I figure I can start with the edge of my network and work in. And for such an important device as an internet gateway, I want to be able to trust it.

Re: Why OpenBSD Is Important to Me

#24

Post by notaplumber »

jayofdoom wrote: post #9

Probably worth noting as well how many software products OpenBSD has contributed back to the overall free software world; things like OpenSSH, (edit: NOT OpenSSL), a more secure ntpd and inetd. Even if you don't run OpenBSD, you benefit from it.

As others have said, OpenBSD is not guilty of creating OpenSSL.. but here are a few of their other crimes.

http://www.openbsd.org/innovations.html

^_^

Re: Why OpenBSD Is Important to Me

#25

Post by notaplumber »

aortega wrote: post #19
atmosx wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since OpenBSD can be backdoored[1] with the same ease that the Linux kernel could be backdoored, I have no idea why all the fuss. Debian is pretty thorough in NOT including proprietary software if that's what we're talking about. As far as I'm concerned, it's good to have options and the OpenBSD developers have created software that I use daily (OpenSMTPd, SSH, PF, etc.) and for that, I'm thankful! ps. I know that de…

>can be backdoored[1] with the same ease No, no with the same ease. Every OpenBSD commit is throughly reviewed, and there is only a bunch of commiters. Compared with linux, with thousands of commiters and tons of code added every day, OBSD is way more difficult to backdoor.

No loadable kernel modules for OpenBSD either.

Re: Why OpenBSD Is Important to Me

#26

Post by leaveyou »

I wanted multiple times to study the OpenBSD source code and I've downloaded it but I never managed to navigate through it, to find the "head and the tail" or to find a reasonable "map" of the source code. I would like for example to follow the execution path in the source code, from the boot up to the login prompt. Does any documentation like this exist or could anyone give me some hints ? Thanks

Re: Why OpenBSD Is Important to Me

#27

Post by oarsinsync »

zxcvcxz wrote: post #17
Spooky23 wrote: post #11

End of the day, OpenBSD is a great example of the value of competition, and the necessity to maintain market rules that encourage it. How awesome is it that we have dedicated operation system geared towards the niche of the market that cares deeply about security?

Just fyi we actually have multiple operating systems dedicated to security.

Can you elaborate on what the alternatives are? The more we all know, the better!

Re: Why OpenBSD Is Important to Me

#29

Post by cisstrd »

I am an OpenBSD user, there is no OS I'd rather use currently (obviously) and I am sure there is no OS with a greater focus on security and clean code, the project as a whole deserves a great deal of respect and admiration for setting the bar when it comes to security, and for being the originator of great products that are used outside the boundaries of OpenBSD itself, however (with all due respect) what the author portrays here is paranoid philosophical mumbo-jumbo I'm normally used to from radical FSF-devotees.

Yes, there are NSA scandals, yes, the US government has repeatedly overstepped boundaries, yes, caution and scepticism is a very healthy and good thing, but on the other hand there are GNU/Linux distributions taking security somewhat seriously, they have to, they too work with open source code, have a lot of users, and review said code, I doubt someone is interested in your specific data, I doubt using a GNU/Linux distribution or some other BSD OS is some risk one shouldn't take, I doubt we should all have to automatically strive for an "ethical" all Free Software life or otherwise we are in risk of somehow being under totalitarian control, I doubt Apple and Microsoft are totally out to get you and by definition filled with evil backdoors the NSA uses to spy on _everyone_... I doubt they only do malicious things,... and talking about security, it's not all in the Software, a lot is in users' behaviour... not talking about him specifically, but "We are all spied on by the NSA, please like me on Instagram and follow me on Facebook for hourly updates on my life so we can join in the fight against totalitarian control"...

As you have guessed by now I am some kind of allergic to this... those idealistic over-simplifications... drawing everything in black and white...

Some of the OS X users I know are incredible technology-orientated and privacy concerned people, should I draw the conclusion they are being overly naive by not using OpenBSD for everything? I don't think so, they are just not suffering from paranoia, are pragmatic and living in the real world...

Re: Why OpenBSD Is Important to Me

#30

Post by tptacek »

notaplumber wrote: post #25
aortega wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>can be backdoored[1] with the same ease No, no with the same ease. Every OpenBSD commit is throughly reviewed, and there is only a bunch of commiters. Compared with linux, with thousands of commiters and tons of code added every day, OBSD is way more difficult to backdoor.

No loadable kernel modules for OpenBSD either.

Not having a formal kernel module system does not actually mean the kernel is secure. Exploits to create module loading systems out of kernel vulnerabilities are approximately as old as stack overflow exploits.
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