There is another HN article that shows salary for STEM majors at mid career was equivalent, irrespective if school. According to that article, at 44, I'm making more than the average MIT grad of the same age, and I went to KU.
It Depends What You Study, Not Where
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Re: It Depends What You Study, Not Where
#22I don't know this survey. But I've read similar and recently published surveys on the subject. Notably, if you stratified the sample to remove computer science students the conclusion is reversed.
I (and I'm sure, others) would absolutely love to see a link or resource for this, could someone provide one?
Re: It Depends What You Study, Not Where
#23For most people I agree. However, as someone who has graduated from a top school (U. of Michigan), I can't tell you how many times my credentials have got me both interviews and jobs. Where you go to school CAN make a big difference, but it depends on the school, the person, and the field of study.
Agreed. You can easily see this in SV startups who simply won't consider anyone outside their choosen list of universities.
Oh yes but that leaves tons of brilliant people who didn't goto any of the ivies ready to hire for those of us not wanting to compete with the SV app style startups. I used to be a bit annoyed by this attitude when I worked as a contractor at a Google data center. Well first it was still a boon to get Google anyway associated with my resume, but second I realized Google and SV and the rest were missing out on lots of brilliant engineers, makers, and programmers. Turns out hard technical problems care less about technical pedigree than humans. ;)
Re: It Depends What You Study, Not Where
#24It would be interesting to see returns broken down by quartile instead of just the average.
Re: It Depends What You Study, Not Where
#25It says "return on degree", so is the income measured relatively to what they spent on the degree? If so, it obviously depends still very much on where you study, as top schools cost much more.
Only for rich parents. (We'd need to see what they actually paid, rather than sticker price).
Re: It Depends What You Study, Not Where
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
Future income is the primary reason people pursue higher education. We tell people from the time they hit middle school that they need to be preparing for college so they can get a good (i.e. high paying) job.
I heard this from my peers in undergrad all the time and it befuddled me. I thought "so ... you have no curiosity about the world? about how stuff works?." I'm not claiming that I had hifalutin ideals; I knew that money was important, but I had this (perhaps naive) idea that if I became an excellent practitioner in whatever I did the money would follow. I just wasn't prepared to hear "I'm just here to get a good job"…
The disconnect is in your "money will follow" statement. Most people simply don't believe that. At least in my experience.
Re: It Depends What You Study, Not Where
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
Future income is the primary reason people pursue higher education. We tell people from the time they hit middle school that they need to be preparing for college so they can get a good (i.e. high paying) job.
I heard this from my peers in undergrad all the time and it befuddled me. I thought "so ... you have no curiosity about the world? about how stuff works?." I'm not claiming that I had hifalutin ideals; I knew that money was important, but I had this (perhaps naive) idea that if I became an excellent practitioner in whatever I did the money would follow. I just wasn't prepared to hear "I'm just here to get a good job"…
A thoughtful graduate student schooled me on this, when I was a Junior working in her lab. She was interviewing widely, looking for a job that suited her goals. She said "If you take the highest offer, then they're deciding for you. Its just prostitution then."
I've remembered that for 35 years.
Re: It Depends What You Study, Not Where
#28It says "return on degree", so is the income measured relatively to what they spent on the degree? If so, it obviously depends still very much on where you study, as top schools cost much more.
That's my reading, too. If top schools have a great return on investment, then the total returns must be significantly higher because of the size of the investment.
Exactly, that confused me too. It would be like saying all the schools cost the same because the interest rate for student loans is the same regardless of amount. There is a huge difference between paying 5% on $1,000 and 5% on $100,000.
Its also interesting that they did the cost net of financial aid, so probably looking at the average cost of the degree, creating a much larger variance than the data set indicates.
Re: It Depends What You Study, Not Where
#29The big thing for me with top schools is the "baseline quality of the degree". I didn't go to a top school, but spent my time studying everything math and CS related I could, and managed to get an awesome education. At the same time, I am fully cognizant of the fact that peers who were less driven likely were more easily able to skate by, for the most part. So when a resume comes across my desk from a guy from my alm…
If an applicant has less than a couple years experience, it's fair to expect/ask for GPA. If they have a lot of independent projects and a clear passion, I'll often excuse a low/missing GPA.
GPA is about as flawed as alma mater, but I think combined they give a useful signal.
Re: It Depends What You Study, Not Where
#30As if future income is the only "return on investment" in an education... smh
Future income is the primary reason people pursue higher education. We tell people from the time they hit middle school that they need to be preparing for college so they can get a good (i.e. high paying) job.
Good doesn't always mean high partying, though. It can just as easily mean 'not a soul crushing retail job.'
Likewise, my brother never got into cs because both of our parents worked in grey cubicle hells. People evaluate jobs on many factors other than pay.