Live data from Hacker News

Facebook bends the rules of audience engagement to its advantage

nytimes.com

21–30 of 119 posts

Re: Facebook bends the rules of audience engagement to its advantage

#21
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Usage patterns and "deriving value" seem like very different beasts.

Yes; in fact, this statement would have made a lot more sense: > "The time people spend using our products is a good measure of whether they're delivering value to us."

Now that's a little ominous, but yeah absolutely. It also fits with the "consumer as product" viewpoint.

Re: Facebook bends the rules of audience engagement to its advantage

#22
Knowing it's within Facebook's financial interest to self-report this unverifiable number as high as they can, I wonder what's included.

Are they only including when a user has the mobile app or browser window open and is engaging with the content or are they measuring the total time the page is open regardless of whether it's being interacted with or not? [1]

Are they only including engaging directly on facebook.com or would looking at say, powered-by-facebook comments on a third party site add to this tally?

If that's game, what other things are open to this interpretation?

I'm not saying these metrics are fraudulent, just underspecified.

---

1. Under the more permissive metrics, I could be considered "on" stackoverflow, github, or wikipedia perhaps 4 hours a day - because I, like most, don't judiciously close every browser window immediately after I'm done. Although I certainly visit these sites a lot, tallying the numbers like this is probably disingenuous.

Re: Facebook bends the rules of audience engagement to its advantage

#24
post #10

I suggest you to read Momo by Michael Ende[1], it is basically about this topic. Obviously, not only Facebook is guilty. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momo_(novel)

Attention Deficit Disorder By Cefte

The afternoon sun angled through a tear in the tent. Ma Bao-Zhi grunted, then shifted his face towards the shade and screwed up his eyes. In the absence of light, the retinal burns from his always-on pupil-tracking HUD-halo danced before his field of vision. He sat up and stretched. It was a new day.

The corner of his visual field that was perpetually occupied by the DistroNet feed blinked. A major announcement was incoming from the most influential association of experts that he had ever been a part of: The Council Of Two Million With A Remit Of Everything.

The upstart replacement of last year's not-hegemon, the Coven of Eight to the Seven; Masters of Knowledge, the Council had, yesterday, consisted of just over 50.3% of the surviving inhabitants of what had once been Taiwan SAR. However, as he scanned the headlines, he noted that an overnight disputation on the meaning of Buddha-nature had resulted in nearly two hundred being purged from the membership roster, and, more importantly, from the Council's ReDistroList. Ma had never posted to any discussion regarding Buddha-nature, for which he was now extremely thankful.

Attention Distribution Cannot Be Gamed, he though, nodding to himself. It was a mantra every child knew, and it was obviously true. 'Gaming' would imply an illegitimate practice, and since the attention economy was inherently legitimate, any practice that arose thereof could not be 'gaming'. The use of randomly-assigned attention redistribution lists to strengthen the network-influence of an association of experts was one of the most powerful practices there was - without it, no modern association of experts could compete.

With the saccadic grace of long practice, his pupils flipped to the updated, slightly smaller ReDistroList, and settled down to start his highly-encouraged ten hours of daily network-reinforcement. Ten hours - ten icons - each one painstakingly designed by the expert it represented. The Coven of Eight to the Seven had highly encouraged eight hours of ReDistroList attention, but the Council's superior attention ethic had led to an expert association network both wider and deeper in links, and thus, far more influential. The Coven defined their area of expertise too narrowly, and left themselves open to a ratio attack. It was a trivial task for the Council to dial down the attention ratio of key knowledge industries overnight, leaving the Coven rudderless and sinking. Ma had been a third-quartile defector, holding out longer than most; his punishment was to enter the Council with six month's half-ratio deficit. Half as likely to be randomly assigned to other experts ReDistroList, he counted himself lucky - the fourth quartile had been exiled entirely. As is, he was comfortably off in a deficit camp outside Taibao.

Ma shook himself; introspection was an audience of one. The first icon belonged to Tracy Liu: 166kg, pink highlights and moderator by acclaim of a yaoi fandom for the ancient classic, Glengarry Glen Ross.

The minutes ticked by, and as the completion bar for the first icon flipped over into green and Tracy's hand-drawn icon faded from sight - young Al Pacino gently cupping young Jack Lemmon's testicles on a bed of index cards - Ma decided that he would treat himself with an hour of free attention. He rucked the covers back from his legs and withdrew his 75MHz future-proofed laptop from its pouch.

Minutes later, halfway through the boot-sequence, Ma heard the unmistakable whirring of a Bother-Gyro. He dug rapidly through the contents of the tent for the thick blanket he'd found the week before, to muffle the fans of the laptop, but the blanket had been redistributed. It was too late anyway: the Bother-Gyro's tracking software had heard the fans.

"Go away!" shouted Ma.

The Bother-Gyro hovered just out of Ma's reach.

"滚蛋!"

"Fuck off."

Bother-Gyros were increasingly common, flying over the water from the Penghu Collective, and Ma had tangled with them before, when he was a high-ratio member of the Coven: an attractive target. The Collective were Min-speakers, and the language barrier was starving them of culture-based attention, and forcing them to desperate measures. He knew that while they would advertise to any moving object, their main purpose was to gain the attention of the victim. Even compared to the average camp member, Ma's influence ratio was low...

"Hey! Bot! There's a high-ratio family just over that wall! You can bother them all at once! Think of the attention gains!"

Unfortunately for Ma, the Bother-Gyro was also running off a 75MHz chip, which did not support voice recognition. Even more unfortunately, what little resources it did have to bring to bear were mainly concentrated on measuring the direction of gaze of the victim, and Ma's gaze had briefly moved from the Gyro to the wall he was gesturing at. The Gyro aimed a module at the RFID tag on Ma's halo.

pffffsss

"Fuck!"

Pepper-spray will catch anyone's attention.

Whilst Ma rolled around in the dirt, the Bother-Gyro gently settled on the ground next to him, conserving battery. Proximity was worth less attention than direct eye-contact, but it was still worth something. After a minute, the database updated the Gyro on Ma's uninspiring attention value, and it buzzed off in search of less deficient prey.

----

continued at ( http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=346... )

Re: Facebook bends the rules of audience engagement to its advantage

#27

> As a company spokeswoman, Jessie Baker, told me: “The time people spend on our site is a good measure of whether we’re delivering value to them.” Eh, the same argument could be made by Philip Morris or a casino: "The time people spend using our products is a good measure of whether we're delivering value to them."

This talk "Is Anything Worth Maximizing?" is worth a watch: http://nxhx.org/maximizing/

Re: Facebook bends the rules of audience engagement to its advantage

#28
post #27

> As a company spokeswoman, Jessie Baker, told me: “The time people spend on our site is a good measure of whether we’re delivering value to them.” Eh, the same argument could be made by Philip Morris or a casino: "The time people spend using our products is a good measure of whether we're delivering value to them."

This talk "Is Anything Worth Maximizing?" is worth a watch: http://nxhx.org/maximizing/

That link doesn't work. Can you verify?

Edit: Its working now.

Re: Facebook bends the rules of audience engagement to its advantage

#29
post #6

This should be a wake up call. This site really doesn't deliver anything of value. It doesn't really make you more social and it doesn't really connect you to people in the real world. So basically you spend 16,800 minutes a year on Facebook. That is 11 days of your life lost a year.

Oh it surely delivers value for the creator:) many are very happy to get data mined and manipulated and dont see how it could be a problem at all.
Post reply on HN