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Cupertino's mayor: Apple 'abuses us' by not paying taxes

theguardian.com

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Re: Cupertino's mayor: Apple 'abuses us' by not paying taxes

#21

Post by nihonde »

dragontamer wrote: post #6
sourcd wrote: post #5

> Barry Chang barely made it into the lobby when Apple’s security team surrounded and escorted him off the property. I had to read it again to make sure I'm not making a mistake. Its unimaginable in some geographies. Evokes mixed feelings like : "cool, they can do that?" to "that's quite arrogant" Also reminds me of a video where Steve Jobs met the council. The mayor was delighted like a teenager, showing off his iPa…

I agree. This is... worrisome behavior of a Mayor. > Getting local politicians to battle Apple is hard, Chang said. He recently proposed that Apple – which is building a massive new campus its own employees nicknamed the Death Star, or more favorably, The Spaceship – should give $100m to improve city infrastructure. To move on the proposal, Chang only needed to get a single vote ‘yes’ among the three other eligible c…

The idea that Apple isn't the best thing that ever happened to Cupertino, California is hilarious.

Re: Cupertino's mayor: Apple 'abuses us' by not paying taxes

#23

Post by jefurii »

nihonde wrote: post #21
dragontamer wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. This is... worrisome behavior of a Mayor. > Getting local politicians to battle Apple is hard, Chang said. He recently proposed that Apple – which is building a massive new campus its own employees nicknamed the Death Star, or more favorably, The Spaceship – should give $100m to improve city infrastructure. To move on the proposal, Chang only needed to get a single vote ‘yes’ among the three other eligible c…

The idea that Apple isn't the best thing that ever happened to Cupertino, California is hilarious.

No, the idea that the city should have to provide roads, utilities, etc to a huge, rich corporation and get nothing back for their trouble is terrible.

Re: Cupertino's mayor: Apple 'abuses us' by not paying taxes

#24

Post by i386 »

sourcd wrote: post #5

> Barry Chang barely made it into the lobby when Apple’s security team surrounded and escorted him off the property. I had to read it again to make sure I'm not making a mistake. Its unimaginable in some geographies. Evokes mixed feelings like : "cool, they can do that?" to "that's quite arrogant" Also reminds me of a video where Steve Jobs met the council. The mayor was delighted like a teenager, showing off his iPa…

This doesn't pass the sniff test for me. It makes it sound like a conspiracy when reality is usually so very mundane.

Companies don't do that unless people turn up randomly, start making crazy claims ("take me to Steve Jobs! I'm here regarding traffic congestion!") and start acting like an ass when they don't get what they want.

Just pure speculation on my part.

Re: Cupertino's mayor: Apple 'abuses us' by not paying taxes

#25

Post by ptaipale »

mdasen wrote: post #18

Absolutely terrible article. In an article about property taxes paid or unpaid, it doesn't even mention property taxes. Is Apple's campus under-assessed? A little Googling shows Cupertino's tax rate as $7.96 on a thousand which would value Apple's campus at $1.16B. Is that a lot? Is that a little? What are other companies assessed at in Cupertino and surrounding cities? The article talks about income taxes which are…

Agreed, but nowadays it is in fashion to complain about companies not paying taxes, and making emotional arguments that give simply wrong meaning to things. For instance, compare corporate income tax (paid as percentage of profit) to revenue (which is not same as profit).

Re: Cupertino's mayor: Apple 'abuses us' by not paying taxes

#26

Post by mdasen »

martinald wrote: post #15

In the UK we have the concept of "Section 106" payments which allow a development through planning by the developer paying the local government some amount of money to redress the cost of dealing with congestion, public relam, affordable housing, etc. For large skyscraper developments in London, this can be many many millions of pounds. Does something similar exist in CA?

I'm not sure there's an official code for it in the States, but it definitely happens. In this case, Apple is spending in excess of a hundred million - $66M on things like infrastructure and low-income housing, $35 incentivizing alternative transit to work, and $15.4M annually to the Santa Clara Valley Transportation Authority (http://venturebeat.com/2013/06/04/apple-campus-2-7k-employee...).

In some cases, companies get sweet deals from locations to move there - Tesla is getting a whopping $1.2B from Nevada. But in Apple's case, they're paying.

Re: Cupertino's mayor: Apple 'abuses us' by not paying taxes

#27

Post by Lazare »

I can't believe Apple is wilfully not paying property taxes on their headquarters! That's quite illegal, and I'm sure...

...oh, they are paying their property taxes? I see. So which taxes, precisely, are they not paying the Cupertino government?

Oh, there aren't any taxes, but you sort of wish someone with the authority to do so would pass a law making new taxes, but they won't, so you're mad at...Apple?

'k.

Re: Cupertino's mayor: Apple 'abuses us' by not paying taxes

#29

Post by Mvandenbergh »

jefurii wrote: post #23
nihonde wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that Apple isn't the best thing that ever happened to Cupertino, California is hilarious.

No, the idea that the city should have to provide roads, utilities, etc to a huge, rich corporation and get nothing back for their trouble is terrible.

Of course that would be absurd and unfair. That's why property taxes exist, to pay for local infrastructure. Apple pays a lot of property taxes in Cupertino.

Property taxes are based on the value of (and in some cases the type of use of) local property, that's reasonable because the costs incurred by the local government to build and maintain infrastructure is related to their use of land.

His argument seems to be that because Apple makes a lot of money they should also pay more taxes, luckily for him that's the way the system works! Apple also pays corporation tax on their income.

Unfortunately for him that tax is federal and not local so he doesn't get any more than any other local government does in federal contributions.

Re: Cupertino's mayor: Apple 'abuses us' by not paying taxes

#30

Post by demarq »

dragontamer wrote: post #13
demarq wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What's his logic for this special Tax on Apple "You’re helping create the problems, so you have to help solve the problem" - Chang

Maybe if he described what these problems were, he's get my support. But considering that he can't even get the support of his own citizens at Town Hall meetings, nor the support of his fellow council members, methinks he's simply incompetent. And that the problems he describes are made up in his imagination. I can't imagine it to be too difficult to come up with a budget that says "We have to pay for X Million Dolla…

> Maybe if he described what these problems were, he's get my support.

I believe the city's infrastructure is struggling to cope with the city's growth. There was mentions of poor and congested roads.

> But considering that he can't even get the support of his own citizens at Town Hall meetings, nor the support of his fellow council members, methinks he's simply incompetent.

to be fair the article points out Apples image as a stumbling block to bring reform:

1) "In the case of Apple, people are so enamored with their iPhones that they can’t see the company. And year after year these companies are voted most respected, most trusted" - Matt Gardner

2) "he tried to organize a rally outside Apple. “But Apple has a pretty good image,” Chang said. “No one wanted to go"

> So here's a special +5% tax on all corporations in this Town

Chang has come up with such a proposal already, albeit it won't levy the extra tax on companies with less than a 100 employees.

> a problem here. And it isn't with Apple. Its with the Mayor.

That could be the case, though I'm leaning towards the Mayors side. This article doesn't go into much depth, and yield enough detail for me to come to a conclusion. I would do some background research but I honestly can't be bothered today. I have a feeling this isn't the last time we here of this, so i'll keep this in the back of my mind for future reference.

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