WhatsApp is back online in Brazil • Hacker News Board

Re: WhatsApp is back online in Brazil

#21

Post by matt_wulfeck » Tue, May 03, 2016, 11:34 PM UTC

outworlder wrote: post #11

x0054 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing, their judicial system functioned as it should, only a day too slow. A district judge in the middle of the country has no right to do stuff like that, and the appellate judge fixed the overstep. Now, step 2, disbar the original district judge.

Step 2 seldom happens. Judges have an extreme amount of power.

Actually judges generally have very little power. For example, they can't enforce any decision they make, they can only make decisions.

In a functioning democracy the branches are balanced. In this case it looks like it took too long.

Re: WhatsApp is back online in Brazil

#22

Post by guhcampos » Tue, May 03, 2016, 11:37 PM UTC

This is hardly the first or the last time this kind of things happens in Brazil.

Long story short, this is exactly the same standoff that happened recently in the US between the FBI and Apple: the authorities want information from a suspect phone, and assume they can get it from a company, in this case WhatsApp. A warrant is issued, and the company refuses to comply.

The big difference is: WhatsApp has been a major headache for telecom companies in Brazil, especially since the arrival of voice calls. With Wifi everywhere, people have been avoiding expensive traditional calls and just using WhatsApp to call for free.

For that reason, the telcos in Brazil are more than happy to comply with court when it comes to WhatsApp blocks, so they do it right away, no questions asked.

Re: WhatsApp is back online in Brazil

#23

Post by eric_h » Tue, May 03, 2016, 11:38 PM UTC

luizlopes wrote: post #7

readams wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is only one specific judge that has ordered the block both times it has occurred. Both times it has been overturned when appealed to other judges in Brazil. It's not "Brazil" that made this decision. It's one extremist judge.

I've heard of groups of people in the Southeast talk about how the mentality of the people in the Northeast is different, and that is how you get the extremist judge.

The parallels with the US in this regard are striking (though of course it's just North/South in the US).

I'm curious if it is the inverse in Brazil of what it is in the United States?

Also, given the downvote(s) and another's chastising reply to the comment to which I'm replying, what exactly is being implied?

[Edit: I just read https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11624980 , so I guess that my first point is confirmed, my second answered in the affirmative, and my third obviated]

[Edit 2: not agreeing with prejudice of any sort in either example, simply pointing out that similarities exist]

Re: WhatsApp is back online in Brazil

#24

Post by schoen » Tue, May 03, 2016, 11:43 PM UTC

eric_h wrote: post #23

luizlopes wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard of groups of people in the Southeast talk about how the mentality of the people in the Northeast is different, and that is how you get the extremist judge.

The parallels with the US in this regard are striking (though of course it's just North/South in the US). I'm curious if it is the inverse in Brazil of what it is in the United States? Also, given the downvote(s) and another's chastising reply to the comment to which I'm replying, what exactly is being implied? [Edit: I just read https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11624980 , so I guess that my first point is confir…

It's not the only factor, but Brazil's south and southeast are dramatically richer than the rest of the country:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Brazilian_federative_u...

Re: WhatsApp is back online in Brazil

#25

Post by EuAndreh » Tue, May 03, 2016, 11:44 PM UTC

antisthenes wrote: post #13

Out of curiosity, what did Brazil use before WhatsApp existed? It seems strange to me that 1 app can capture such an overwhelming majority, because it's just a client, of which there have always been dozens if not hundreds.

IMHO, the biggest selling point of WhatsApp for brazilians is that it works as offline as it is possible. All received data is stored locally.

Even if you're offline and send a message, it stores it locally and send it when connection becomes available.

Since the majority of WhatsApp users in Brazil have access only to low quality internet connection, this becomes a major issue.

Re: WhatsApp is back online in Brazil

#26

Post by singlow » Tue, May 03, 2016, 11:49 PM UTC

schoen wrote: post #6

readams wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is only one specific judge that has ordered the block both times it has occurred. Both times it has been overturned when appealed to other judges in Brazil. It's not "Brazil" that made this decision. It's one extremist judge.

The December 2015 block was ordered by a judge in São Paulo (edit: São Bernardo do Campo city, in São Paulo state), while the most recent block was ordered by a judge in Sergipe. What you might be thinking of was the February arrest of a Facebook executive, which was ordered by the same judge in Sergipe as the current WhatsApp block.

I think he or she just meant that in each case it was a single Judge's decision - that in neither case was the decision reviewed by a second court or committee before taking effect.

Re: WhatsApp is back online in Brazil

#27

Post by ma2rten » Tue, May 03, 2016, 11:57 PM UTC

antisthenes wrote: post #13

Out of curiosity, what did Brazil use before WhatsApp existed? It seems strange to me that 1 app can capture such an overwhelming majority, because it's just a client, of which there have always been dozens if not hundreds.

It's not surprising to me that there is only one app used by the majority of people. That is called the network effect.

But why is it WhatsApp? It's very frictionless. WhatsApp is a drop-in replacement for SMS. You don't make an account. You just download the app, import your phonebook and start messaging people who are also on WhatsApp. It's SMS except it's free, not more not less. My parents (not from Brazil) are on WhatsApp. They don't use any other social network or messaging app (except Skype).

Re: WhatsApp is back online in Brazil

#28

Post by [deleted] » Wed, May 04, 2016, 12:01 AM UTC

outworlder wrote: post #12

luizlopes wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard of groups of people in the Southeast talk about how the mentality of the people in the Northeast is different, and that is how you get the extremist judge.

> I've heard of groups of people in the Southeast talk about how the mentality of the people in the Northeast is different Being born in the capital and lived in the Northeast for 3 decades, I can attest that the mentality is indeed different. For instance: the biggest A-holes usually come from the Southeast. See what I did there? I have many examples to back this up, but they prove nothing. Generalizations are harmf…

[deleted]

Re: WhatsApp is back online in Brazil

#29

Post by scriptalipta » Wed, May 04, 2016, 12:12 AM UTC

cadddr wrote: post #10

luizlopes wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard of groups of people in the Southeast talk about how the mentality of the people in the Northeast is different, and that is how you get the extremist judge.

If you are Brazilian (as your username suggests), you should be ashamed for making this comment.

I am not Brazilian, but currently in Brazil. I also heard comments along those lines. Nothing to be ashamed of when making a statement like that. It's worse when you let nationalistic pride stop you from making negative comments.

Re: WhatsApp is back online in Brazil

#30

Post by lucastx » Wed, May 04, 2016, 12:18 AM UTC

We dodged this bullet but here in Brazil but RIGHT NOW there is a much more dangerous risk: with the Parliamentary Commission on Cybercrimes (CPI dos Crimes Cibernéticos / CPICIBER) report a "combo" of bills will get "fast track" on Congress and, to list some things, expand data retention, allow access to IP addresses without warrant and allow judges to block "illegal" content, including copyright violations much like DMCA does (they use the "notice-and-staydown" terminology).

More details here:

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/04/battery-dangerous-cybe...

https://www.accessnow.org/access-now-delivers-petition-brazi...

https://theintercept.com/2016/04/26/brazilian-cybercrime-bil...

The final voting will happen TOMORROW, 9 a.m. Brasilia time (GMT-3), 5am in California I guess. If you can help raise awareness and use EFF's Action Center to message the parliamentaries through Twitter and Facebook around that time, it would help a lot.

https://act.eff.org/action/fight-back-against-brazil-s-draco...

In portuguese, this is the best starting point on the debate (disclaimer: I work on antivigilancia.org):

https://antivigilancia.org/pt/cpiciber/