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TTIP Leaks

ttip-leaks.org

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Re: TTIP Leaks

#21

Post by PythonicAlpha »

_pmf_ wrote: post #14
tommyman wrote: post #9

So business groups and lobbyists for companies like IBM, Apple, Google et al. are deeply involved in the US side of negotiations (far more than any public interest groups). Then on the EU side, business groups and lobbyists for companies like IBM, Apple, Google et al. are deeply involved in negotiations to the detriment of all public groups. So this is really lots of big US companies negotiating with themselves on ho…

You can probably bet that the German government uses TTIP as leverage against future "irregularities" regarding automotive regulations. The spin in Europe (at least in Germany) is that the EU is portrayed as being pro-consumer, which is basically a joke (ask any VW owner in Germany how they are being compensated).

The problem will be, that with such treaties as TTIP, the worst of both systems will become the default.

So it is very likely, that the US will get the standards for air pollution (from automobiles) from the EU and the EU will get the food standards from the US.

Re: TTIP Leaks

#22

Post by dexterdog »

PythonicAlpha wrote: post #20
tazjin wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump is probably our only chance at stopping this from becoming a reality.

Before Obama was elected, they said the same thing about him and spying on US citizen. Edit: Seems, I said something right here -- hence the many downvotes! For those not knowing: Obama was much criticizing the spying when he still was Senator.

But that was OK because he had the most transparent administration ever as promised.

Re: TTIP Leaks

#23

Post by PythonicAlpha »

dexterdog wrote: post #22
PythonicAlpha wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before Obama was elected, they said the same thing about him and spying on US citizen. Edit: Seems, I said something right here -- hence the many downvotes! For those not knowing: Obama was much criticizing the spying when he still was Senator.

But that was OK because he had the most transparent administration ever as promised.

So, it is OK, to violate the rights of the people in a "transparent" way?

Or are you just want to say, that it is an improvement that he at least kept one of his promises?

Re: TTIP Leaks

#24

Post by the_mitsuhiko »

PythonicAlpha wrote: post #20
tazjin wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump is probably our only chance at stopping this from becoming a reality.

Before Obama was elected, they said the same thing about him and spying on US citizen. Edit: Seems, I said something right here -- hence the many downvotes! For those not knowing: Obama was much criticizing the spying when he still was Senator.

Nice that only ever US citizens are considered.

Re: TTIP Leaks

#25

Post by matt4077 »

Loic wrote: post #7
jychang wrote: post #4

Here's the preview for relevant section for the TTRIP with regards to the Internet: http://www.ttip-leaks.org/agamemnon/doc4.pdf The actual preview function seems to be broken, it only opens in a tiny iframe.

First page: "Nothing in this Chapter shall be construed to: ... (b) require a Party to compel any enterprise exclusively engaged in the broadcast or cable distribution of radio or television programming to make available its broadcast or cable facilities as a public telecommunications network." Which means, if your cable company is in monopoly somewhere, you cannot have any regulations to force sharing the network to…

It means that TTIP doesn't force such sharing. It doesn't mean that no other law can do it. I know laws are hard to parse, but sure the difference between "I don't want water" and "nobody ever gets any water" is accessible to the layman?

Re: TTIP Leaks

#26

Post by PythonicAlpha »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #24
PythonicAlpha wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before Obama was elected, they said the same thing about him and spying on US citizen. Edit: Seems, I said something right here -- hence the many downvotes! For those not knowing: Obama was much criticizing the spying when he still was Senator.

Nice that only ever US citizens are considered.

As non-US citizen, I consider also non-US citizen ;)

But Obamas voters where US citizen, of course.

(and I choose to take the most obvious problem for my statement)

Re: TTIP Leaks

#27

Post by freddref »

vog wrote: post #11
creshal wrote: post #2

Not that it's still not all documents, and already out of date: > The documents that Greenpeace Netherlands has released about half of the draft text as of April 2016, prior to the start of the 13th round of TTIP negotiations between the EU and the US (New York, 25-29 April 2016). As far as we know the final document will consist of 25 to 30 chapters and many extensive annexes. The EU Commission published an overview…

> So politics will probably pull the "your complaints are all addressed in the still secret parts / were changed after the leak, we pinky-swear" card. Maybe, but I deeply hope that the public reaction to that will be either: "Yeeeaaah, sure ..." Or, the more diplomatic variant: "How do you plan to reestablish the trust needed to make your promise credible?"

Will the public reaction be considered at all in this proposal? In line with current trends is it not more likely that public reaction will for the most part be ignored?

Re: TTIP Leaks

#28

Post by tommyman »

tazjin wrote: post #19
tommyman wrote: post #9

So business groups and lobbyists for companies like IBM, Apple, Google et al. are deeply involved in the US side of negotiations (far more than any public interest groups). Then on the EU side, business groups and lobbyists for companies like IBM, Apple, Google et al. are deeply involved in negotiations to the detriment of all public groups. So this is really lots of big US companies negotiating with themselves on ho…

Trump is probably our only chance at stopping this from becoming a reality.

I honestly cannot tell if that is serious, a joke or some kind of irony.

I'm not american so really not my business however narcissists do not make good social leaders. They make really terrible & dangerous social leaders.

Re: TTIP Leaks

#29

Post by PythonicAlpha »

lispm wrote: post #18
_pmf_ wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can probably bet that the German government uses TTIP as leverage against future "irregularities" regarding automotive regulations. The spin in Europe (at least in Germany) is that the EU is portrayed as being pro-consumer, which is basically a joke (ask any VW owner in Germany how they are being compensated).

The spin in Germany actually is that regulation GENERALLY in the EU is working differently and that few want to change to the US model (less regulation to bring products to the market, but costly court cases). You can study the effects of the differences in many areas. That it is not working in some areas and that there is a lot industry lobbying is another topic.

The problem with the automotive industry is, that the top lobbyist in the EU for it is the German chancellor (which name soever he/she has).

Re: TTIP Leaks

#30

Post by leoc »

PythonicAlpha wrote: post #23
dexterdog wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that was OK because he had the most transparent administration ever as promised.

So, it is OK, to violate the rights of the people in a "transparent" way? Or are you just want to say, that it is an improvement that he at least kept one of his promises?

I'm pretty sure dexterdog is being sarcastic.
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