Diabetes: can you really eat to beat it? • Hacker News Board

Re: Diabetes: can you really eat to beat it?

#21

Post by busterarm » Mon, Apr 25, 2016, 1:54 PM UTC

forgetsusername wrote: post #17

busterarm wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, completely ignoring the fact that most people who get Type-2 diabetes are genetically predisposed to it and it can also be caused by things like repeated bouts of pancreatitis and EPI. But no, let's shame everyone who is fat for being overindulgent. Maybe having diabetes wouldn't be stigmatized so much if so many Type-1s didn't participate in it as well. (Non-diabetic here, I have no dog in this fight.)

> most people who get Type-2 Do you have any evidence that it's most ? > let's shame everyone who is fat for being overindulgent. Being overweight is tied to many diseases, and costs me a lot of money in health care costs. I have a say in this.

Skinny people get Type-2 diabetes too.

The beautiful thing about figuring out a treatment is that it'll help you if you're Type-2 diabetic and should ease your suffering from the disease regardless of your fitness level.

Re: Diabetes: can you really eat to beat it?

#22

Post by needcaffeine » Mon, Apr 25, 2016, 2:06 PM UTC

ollysb wrote: post #18

I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes about a year and a half ago, at the time I had an HBA1C of 8.2 (6.0 is the top end of normal). The first thing I did when I got home was google "cure for diabetes", the newcastle diet is what came up. After 6 months of the usual medication (metformin etc.) I decided to give it a go. You can see my log, which includes medication, supplements, exercise, total calories per day and BG…

Can't access the document. Permissions need to be changed.

Re: Diabetes: can you really eat to beat it?

#23

Post by melling » Mon, Apr 25, 2016, 2:07 PM UTC

ollysb wrote: post #18

I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes about a year and a half ago, at the time I had an HBA1C of 8.2 (6.0 is the top end of normal). The first thing I did when I got home was google "cure for diabetes", the newcastle diet is what came up. After 6 months of the usual medication (metformin etc.) I decided to give it a go. You can see my log, which includes medication, supplements, exercise, total calories per day and BG…

People who use metformin seem to live longer than those who don't. Studies are about to be done to see if it actually works:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/fountain-of-youth-drug-trial-has...

"Behind the mania is a widely used, inexpensive generic pill for Type 2 diabetes called metformin. Scientists are planning a clinical trial to see if the drug can delay or prevent some of the most devastating diseases of advanced age, from heart ailments to cognitive decline to cancer. To test the pill, gerontologists at 14 aging centers around the U.S. will follow 3,000 seniors for six years. Half the seniors involved would get the drug, while the others would receive a placebo."

Re: Diabetes: can you really eat to beat it?

#24

Post by sp332 » Mon, Apr 25, 2016, 2:12 PM UTC

js2 wrote: post #10

Michael Mosley's documentary, ”Eat, Fast and Live Longer” (about the health benefits of calorie restriction) is also interesting in the context of this article: https://vimeo.com/103656060 the plank (an exercise to help lose excess fat round the stomach) This is incorrect. The plank is an excellent exercise for building core strength (much better than situps), but it does not help lose excess fat around the stomach m…

In fact, you can't target fat loss. http://www.yalescientific.org/2011/04/targeted-fat-loss-myth...

Re: Diabetes: can you really eat to beat it?

#25

Post by exelius » Mon, Apr 25, 2016, 2:16 PM UTC

ollysb wrote: post #18

I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes about a year and a half ago, at the time I had an HBA1C of 8.2 (6.0 is the top end of normal). The first thing I did when I got home was google "cure for diabetes", the newcastle diet is what came up. After 6 months of the usual medication (metformin etc.) I decided to give it a go. You can see my log, which includes medication, supplements, exercise, total calories per day and BG…

Given that Type 2 diabetes is generally believed to be caused by diet, it makes sense that diet could fix it as well.

My personal hypothesis is that some people have intestinal bacteria that are really, really good at breaking down sugar very quickly. So when you eat high GI foods, your gut turns them into glucose very quickly releases them into your blood, and your body has to deal accordingly. IMO that would help explain why people who are very obese get type 2 with some regularity, but how otherwise healthy adults who are simply moderately overweight can also develop it.

A corollary to this hypothesis is that the ability of your (personal) intestinal bacteria to break down different types of foods at different rates means that there is no such thing as a "universal diet". Some people will be healthiest eating large amounts of red meat, some will be healthiest on a high-carb diet, while others may need something more fiber-rich (assuming appropriate calorie control, of course). This appears to be borne out anecdotally, with diet plans having different efficacy on different people.

Intestinal flora is something the medical community is just now beginning to research and understand. There's something unique that happens in our intestines, and while there's obviously a genetic component to it, the genes your intestinal flora carry may be just as important. We don't understand the system or the feedback loops (maybe eating too much sugar causes these bacteria to over-populate the intestines in some people and crowd out other bacteria?) The point is, there's a whole lot we don't know about how our bodies process the nutrients we take in. There are a lot of studies underway, but holistic medicine is pretty obviously a real thing -- we just don't understand the science behind it yet.

Re: Diabetes: can you really eat to beat it?

#26

Post by vonmoltke » Mon, Apr 25, 2016, 2:20 PM UTC

buzzcut wrote: post #20

MonadQueen wrote: post #3

It's estimated that 60% of type-2 diabetics would no longer be affected if they simply lost weight and got down to a healthy BMI. Obese Type-2s should really be called "Type F" because it's not fair to people who didn't self-inflict their condition.

"Self-inflict." It's actually a fairly complicated and can be quite difficult for people to break out of, even people who desperately want to change. When people follow the standard guidelines (which are beginning, slowly, to change) to avoid fat and reduce calories, they end up feeling hungry all the time, and have to white knuckle their way through. This is not a state that people can maintain long-term. Starvation…

> Starvation studies from the University of Minnesota have been described this way: "During the semi-starvation phase the changes were dramatic. Beyond the gaunt appearance of the men, there were significant decreases in their strength and stamina, body temperature, heart rate and sex drive. The psychological effects were significant as well. Hunger made the men obsessed with food. They would dream and fantasize about food, read and talk about food and savor the two meals a day they were given. They reported fatigue, irritability, depression and apathy. Interestingly, the men also reported decreases in mental ability, although mental testing of the men did not support this belief."

Those people were actually starving. Their fat stores had dropped to 4% or less, which is very dangerous when not on a strictly controlled and supervised diet. People with normal or above normal stores of body fat can be hungry and malnourished, but will not be starving (in the medical sense of the word, which is what the Minnesota experiment was testing).

> In addition, there is evidence that the body begins to reduce energy output in response to reduced energy input, thus making the advice every overweight person hears from nearly every source to "eat less and move more" a load of nonsense. That can work short-term, but the combination of reduced energy output and constant hunger make that recipe very ineffective long-term.

I would like to see this in reputable studies, because everything I have read on the subject rejects the hypothesis that there is a physiological change in energy usage as a result of lowered intake. In fact, it a) doesn't make any sense since fat is supposed to be a store of energy for lean times and b) if the body could function at its current level on less energy, it would.

Re: Diabetes: can you really eat to beat it?

#27

Post by vonmoltke » Mon, Apr 25, 2016, 2:22 PM UTC

exelius wrote: post #25

ollysb wrote: post #18

I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes about a year and a half ago, at the time I had an HBA1C of 8.2 (6.0 is the top end of normal). The first thing I did when I got home was google "cure for diabetes", the newcastle diet is what came up. After 6 months of the usual medication (metformin etc.) I decided to give it a go. You can see my log, which includes medication, supplements, exercise, total calories per day and BG…

Given that Type 2 diabetes is generally believed to be caused by diet, it makes sense that diet could fix it as well. My personal hypothesis is that some people have intestinal bacteria that are really, really good at breaking down sugar very quickly. So when you eat high GI foods, your gut turns them into glucose very quickly releases them into your blood, and your body has to deal accordingly. IMO that would help e…

> There are a lot of studies underway, but holistic medicine is pretty obviously a real thing -- we just don't understand the science behind it yet.

"[W]e just don't understand the science behind it yet" because there is none. Holistic medicine is quackery that has failed scientific tests if efficacy time and time again.

Re: Diabetes: can you really eat to beat it?

#28

Post by dualogy » Mon, Apr 25, 2016, 2:25 PM UTC

exelius wrote: post #25

ollysb wrote: post #18

I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes about a year and a half ago, at the time I had an HBA1C of 8.2 (6.0 is the top end of normal). The first thing I did when I got home was google "cure for diabetes", the newcastle diet is what came up. After 6 months of the usual medication (metformin etc.) I decided to give it a go. You can see my log, which includes medication, supplements, exercise, total calories per day and BG…

Given that Type 2 diabetes is generally believed to be caused by diet, it makes sense that diet could fix it as well. My personal hypothesis is that some people have intestinal bacteria that are really, really good at breaking down sugar very quickly. So when you eat high GI foods, your gut turns them into glucose very quickly releases them into your blood, and your body has to deal accordingly. IMO that would help e…

> My personal hypothesis is that some people have intestinal bacteria that are really, really good at breaking down sugar very quickly. So when you eat high GI foods, your gut turns them into glucose very quickly releases them into your blood

Are there such bacteria? I only know about intestinal bacteria breaking down indigestable carbohydrate (also called soluble "fiber") into short-chain fatty acids. Other carbs except fructose (handled by liver) should be broken down into glucose via digestive enzymes prior to colon throughout the digestive tract starting in your mouth.

> IMO that would help explain why people who are very obese get type 2 with some regularity, but how otherwise healthy adults who are simply moderately overweight can also develop it.

Well many obese also never develop T2DM either. The non-fat people who become T2 might have been on a high-carb-low-fat regimen rather than a high-carb-high-fat regimen.

> A corollary to this hypothesis is that the ability of your (personal) intestinal bacteria to break down different types of foods at different rates means that there is no such thing as a "universal diet". Some people will be healthiest eating large amounts of red meat, some will be healthiest on a high-carb diet, while others may need something more fiber-rich (assuming appropriate calorie control, of course).

This seems to assume an unduly large role for intestinal bacteria in digestion. Stomach acid and digestive enzymes do the bulk of the work prior, and colon bacteria get leftovers that our bodies don't handle "natively" AFAIK. Exception is some cause or other flushing stuff down the tract prematurely prior to absorption, perhaps something dangerous that stomach acid didn't neutralize, enzyme problems, overstuffing or what not..

> Intestinal flora is something the medical community is just now beginning to research and understand. There's something unique that happens in our intestines

I agree but people shouldn't forget bacteria only get the leftovers and if bacteria are found to be the cause of weight or health issues, maybe one should first evaluate whether enzymes are broken or too much (improperly preprocessed) cellulose is being consumed?

Re: Diabetes: can you really eat to beat it?

#29

Post by davnicwil » Mon, Apr 25, 2016, 2:28 PM UTC

auggierose wrote: post #11

chetman wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Came here to ensure that was discussed. It's really kind of a shame that there's as much confusion about the types of diabetes as there is. I've taken to referring to them, in an EXCEEDINGLY reductive manner, as "autoimmune diabetes" and "cheeseburger diabetes." My brother has autoimmune diabetes (aka Type 1). We give to and volunteer with the JDRF as a result, because its mission is laser focussed on type 1 related…

You could also just say that one type of diabetes is about people who love cheeseburgers by nature, and the other one about people whose genes are broken in a different way (also by nature). Now, if you want to discuss which one is more important: maybe the one which occurs more commonly and is easier to cure?

Just to dispel a common misconception, the cause of type 1 diabetes remains unknown. There is no conclusive proof that the condition is genetic.

AFAIK there are certain correlations with the condition and the presence of certain gene combinations, and hypotheses abound that it is indeed a genetic condition, but they are still just hypotheses - research is ongoing.

Re: Diabetes: can you really eat to beat it?

#30

Post by maxerickson » Mon, Apr 25, 2016, 2:29 PM UTC

exelius wrote: post #25

ollysb wrote: post #18

I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes about a year and a half ago, at the time I had an HBA1C of 8.2 (6.0 is the top end of normal). The first thing I did when I got home was google "cure for diabetes", the newcastle diet is what came up. After 6 months of the usual medication (metformin etc.) I decided to give it a go. You can see my log, which includes medication, supplements, exercise, total calories per day and BG…

Given that Type 2 diabetes is generally believed to be caused by diet, it makes sense that diet could fix it as well. My personal hypothesis is that some people have intestinal bacteria that are really, really good at breaking down sugar very quickly. So when you eat high GI foods, your gut turns them into glucose very quickly releases them into your blood, and your body has to deal accordingly. IMO that would help e…

The standard human digestion system is really really good at breaking down sugar very quickly. Enzymes dominate the process, not microorganisms.