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Apple Services Shut Down in China in Startling About-Face

nytimes.com

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Re: Apple Services Shut Down in China in Startling About-Face

#21

Post by DannyBee »

Steko wrote: post #11
3pt14159 wrote: post #2

China has to play fairly carefully with Apple. On the one hand it's an American company that puts microphones and cameras into the cafes, offices, and bedrooms of many of their citizenry; but on the other hand, with decreasing competitiveness due to rising wages there isn't anything specifically _stopping_ Apple or other American tech companies from moving manufacturing out of China. Foxconn alone employs about 4.3 m…

I think you've got it backwards, it's Apple that needs China's market and China basicallly has them over a barrel on these secondary products. What China has to be careful of is eventually the US/EU decide to get tough on Chinese protectionism and impose significant barriers to goods manufactured in China. And that would also be bad for Apple again since they make their stuff in China.

"it's Apple that needs China's market".

I always hear this, but given the experience of most american companies in china, it seems little stretched.

Re: Apple Services Shut Down in China in Startling About-Face

#22

Post by gherkin0 »

eulji wrote: post #4
jbob2000 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manufacturing is slowly moving to be "on demand". That is, a consumer purchases something, then it is built and shipped to them. It doesn't make sense any more for a company to predict market volume and then produce goods to match the prediction, especially since technology turns over so fast. With that in mind, I could see Apple having simple components being produced in a number of different countries, then shipped…

I predict that technology is not going to move that fast as it used to (moore's law etc). Instead we will go back to the age of "durable" / "longer lasting goods". A good software will make a difference between scoring a sale or not. Same with services. Besides most of the companies are trying to move the manufacturing to Vietnam, Indonesia, India, Africa etc or automatizing as much as possible.

> Instead we will go back to the age of "durable" / "longer lasting goods".

I think it's more likely that, goods will become more flimsy, cheaply made, and disposable. If true progress no longer provides motivation to buy new things, manufacturers will invent new ones.

Re: Apple Services Shut Down in China in Startling About-Face

#23

Post by educar »

_nedR wrote: post #13
bnolsen wrote: post #6

and this is a reason why china with the current government can never truly be a world leader in anything: Your entire enterprise can be distroyed at the whim of a few unrestrained individuals. Sort of like apple's app store, but at a much bigger level.

Being from india, i have come to the opposite conclusion. Chinese protectionism (aided by the language barrier) has served chinese entrepreneurs quite well. They have their own google. Their own fb. Their own twitter. Basically all services that India doesnt have. The list goes on. These services may or may not be inferior to the original but from an economic standpoint, its good since the money and data flows within…

Totally agree with this. India is not an exception here though. In europe, we have the problem that all the main software is owned in US companies and much of the data resides there. Given US companies desire to mine user data at will, this is very much frowned upon. But sadly, there is no competition (whatever there was has already been killed).

The US companies (slack being perfect example) have the typical approach of: 1. Take capital and give out free stuff 2. Be everywhere 3. Now either show ads and mine user data and build user profiles. Alternately, they shutdown. All this churn causes a tremendous amount of loss in the local economy.

Re: Apple Services Shut Down in China in Startling About-Face

#24

Post by masklinn »

educar wrote: post #20
3pt14159 wrote: post #2

China has to play fairly carefully with Apple. On the one hand it's an American company that puts microphones and cameras into the cafes, offices, and bedrooms of many of their citizenry; but on the other hand, with decreasing competitiveness due to rising wages there isn't anything specifically _stopping_ Apple or other American tech companies from moving manufacturing out of China. Foxconn alone employs about 4.3 m…

You make it sound like Apple can easily move out of China. Think again. Apple's profits are largely due to the cheap labor market (just like many other companies)

Their point is that chinese costs are rising fast. OTOH they're probably underestimating the difficulty of moving outside China, not because of the supply chain.

Re: Apple Services Shut Down in China in Startling About-Face

#25

Post by jonknee »

DannyBee wrote: post #21
Steko wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you've got it backwards, it's Apple that needs China's market and China basicallly has them over a barrel on these secondary products. What China has to be careful of is eventually the US/EU decide to get tough on Chinese protectionism and impose significant barriers to goods manufactured in China. And that would also be bad for Apple again since they make their stuff in China.

"it's Apple that needs China's market". I always hear this, but given the experience of most american companies in china, it seems little stretched.

Apple isn't most American companies.

Re: Apple Services Shut Down in China in Startling About-Face

#26

Post by toomuchtodo »

educar wrote: post #20
3pt14159 wrote: post #2

China has to play fairly carefully with Apple. On the one hand it's an American company that puts microphones and cameras into the cafes, offices, and bedrooms of many of their citizenry; but on the other hand, with decreasing competitiveness due to rising wages there isn't anything specifically _stopping_ Apple or other American tech companies from moving manufacturing out of China. Foxconn alone employs about 4.3 m…

You make it sound like Apple can easily move out of China. Think again. Apple's profits are largely due to the cheap labor market (just like many other companies)

> Apple's profits are largely due to the cheap labor market (just like many other companies)

Foxconn is replacing millions of workers in China with robotics. Couldn't Apple acquire these same robotics, perform their own manufacturing in the US (remember, substantial tax breaks in the US for equipment purchases!), and then lease out any spare capacity.

Seems its all coming back to US shores. As a US citizen, I don't mind.

Re: Apple Services Shut Down in China in Startling About-Face

#27

Post by soperj »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #26
educar wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make it sound like Apple can easily move out of China. Think again. Apple's profits are largely due to the cheap labor market (just like many other companies)

> Apple's profits are largely due to the cheap labor market (just like many other companies) Foxconn is replacing millions of workers in China with robotics. Couldn't Apple acquire these same robotics, perform their own manufacturing in the US (remember, substantial tax breaks in the US for equipment purchases!), and then lease out any spare capacity. Seems its all coming back to US shores. As a US citizen, I don't m…

Not really since all the components that actually make the phone are also made in China.

Re: Apple Services Shut Down in China in Startling About-Face

#28

Post by nostrebored »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #26
educar wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make it sound like Apple can easily move out of China. Think again. Apple's profits are largely due to the cheap labor market (just like many other companies)

> Apple's profits are largely due to the cheap labor market (just like many other companies) Foxconn is replacing millions of workers in China with robotics. Couldn't Apple acquire these same robotics, perform their own manufacturing in the US (remember, substantial tax breaks in the US for equipment purchases!), and then lease out any spare capacity. Seems its all coming back to US shores. As a US citizen, I don't m…

because rapid destabilization and shifts in the job market have never had far reaching international consequences

Re: Apple Services Shut Down in China in Startling About-Face

#29

Post by mcintyre1994 »

DannyBee wrote: post #21
Steko wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you've got it backwards, it's Apple that needs China's market and China basicallly has them over a barrel on these secondary products. What China has to be careful of is eventually the US/EU decide to get tough on Chinese protectionism and impose significant barriers to goods manufactured in China. And that would also be bad for Apple again since they make their stuff in China.

"it's Apple that needs China's market". I always hear this, but given the experience of most american companies in china, it seems little stretched.

Who else do they make a gold and red $20k+ watch for? More seriously, China is their 2nd biggest market and Tim Cook expects it to be their 1st. http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2013/01/11/tim-cook-s...
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