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Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

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Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#21

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

joslin01 wrote: post #10
carsongross wrote: post #8

I know it's trite to say, but it is probably good to be reminded how often people held up as being successful are, often, deeply unhappy. Michael Jordan is another canonical example. To live these lives of unparalleled, almost supernatural greatness, and then end up embittered... The stoics did nothing wrong. EDIT: to clarify, I'm not dismissing Miller's critique at all, I'm noting that someone living, literally, a r…

How does this apply to the music industry sucking? I didn't take this as Steve Miller being an unhappy person though you are right, many successful people do end up the road down to depression -- Elvis being another great example.

I doubt he's an unhappy person - he's unhappy with the power structure of the industry he works in.

Not least he's unhappy because R&RHOF tried to charge him $10k per member to include his band in the ceremony.

It shouldn't be hard to understand the difference.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#22

Post by 6stringmerc »

matchagaucho wrote: post #17
dudifordMann wrote: post #14

I always thought the age of the internet, especially with modern bandwidths, could be the end of large labels for the music industry (or publishing houses for literature). I understand (to a naive degree) that the labels establish large networks, and complex licensing with public avenues like the radio or concert halls. It is also interesting that that most self published artists get the semi-derogatory term of "Indi…

The "Super Artist" level of entertainment requires an army to support marketing, legal issues, mechanical licensing, PR, tours, accountants, video production, publishing... Only the big labels are prepared to provide this support.

Traditionally yes, but the newer Artist-Management dynamic, most successful in Taylor Swift with Big Machine, but also well-respected in the form of Q Prime Management, can do most of those services and retain rights for artists that labels would traditionally take for themselves (e.g. publishing rights, which Q Prime tells their artists to retain). You're definitely not wrong. I think there are cracks in the system though.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#23

Post by baldfat »

I owned a SMALL Record Label and Studio. I was (still?) good at picking out talent in bands.

The Whole Industry Sucks

I had two bands that ended up on Major Labels and Toured the World. I met a kid on the street wearing one of my Bands shirts and struck up a conversation. They still love the band 10 years later.

These guys per person made at the TOP $7,000 in profit after expenses were paid. One band did a KickStarter and pulled in $40,000. It was their biggest pay day ever. I knwo a band (Zao) who has the a Label's (Solid State) biggest selling album ever and the band never saw a dime. PS That band was drama and the drummer was the biggest jerk ever BUT they still deserved to get paid.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#24

Post by dudifordMann »

matchagaucho wrote: post #17
dudifordMann wrote: post #14

I always thought the age of the internet, especially with modern bandwidths, could be the end of large labels for the music industry (or publishing houses for literature). I understand (to a naive degree) that the labels establish large networks, and complex licensing with public avenues like the radio or concert halls. It is also interesting that that most self published artists get the semi-derogatory term of "Indi…

The "Super Artist" level of entertainment requires an army to support marketing, legal issues, mechanical licensing, PR, tours, accountants, video production, publishing... Only the big labels are prepared to provide this support.

Great point, even if an artist had 'n' skilled people to facilitate those roles and produce the needed deliverables, what would happen to those people when the artist becomes unpopular? so even if there is no way around having these established entities for the purpose of essentially allowing the artist to create, then is it a matter of reform? which really means not signing to big labels in the hopes that if enough artists do the same that the face of the industry changes?

[grammar edit]

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#25

Post by vlunkr »

6stringmerc wrote: post #19
dudifordMann wrote: post #14

I always thought the age of the internet, especially with modern bandwidths, could be the end of large labels for the music industry (or publishing houses for literature). I understand (to a naive degree) that the labels establish large networks, and complex licensing with public avenues like the radio or concert halls. It is also interesting that that most self published artists get the semi-derogatory term of "Indi…

You've done a strong job of describing what I felt years and years ago, and have come to learn is the lay of the land still in the music business. Labels have done a fantastic job of maintaining their gate-keeper status and of being able to break new artists into the mainstream. What didn't change with the internet is, partially kidding here, that 14 year old girls decide what's going to be popular. Outside of that,…

So, you might say the musicians who are more business savvy (they release independently in one way or another) can do well for themselves. The ones who let someone else take care of that stuff get screwed.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#26

Post by dworin »

From the article: "If the Rock And Roll Hall of Fame wants to be taken seriously, they need to put their books out in the public. They need to fucking become transparent"

Am I missing some deeper story? They have an 82 page form 990 on their own website. Most non-profits don't disclose anywhere near as much, and few post it on their own site.

https://rockhall.com/media/assets/files/form990.pdf

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#27

Post by k-mcgrady »

6stringmerc wrote: post #19
dudifordMann wrote: post #14

I always thought the age of the internet, especially with modern bandwidths, could be the end of large labels for the music industry (or publishing houses for literature). I understand (to a naive degree) that the labels establish large networks, and complex licensing with public avenues like the radio or concert halls. It is also interesting that that most self published artists get the semi-derogatory term of "Indi…

You've done a strong job of describing what I felt years and years ago, and have come to learn is the lay of the land still in the music business. Labels have done a fantastic job of maintaining their gate-keeper status and of being able to break new artists into the mainstream. What didn't change with the internet is, partially kidding here, that 14 year old girls decide what's going to be popular. Outside of that,…

>> "Also Skrillex - his label had no interest in his bleep-blonk-screech-BASS DROP tunes and he set it free online and got that avenue going - now he's got his own label and millions in the bank."

Financially I think artists like Skrillex (EDM producers in general) are incredibly lucky. Production costs are practically zero. You buy a DAW and some monitors and you can do everything at home on your laptop. You don't need to pay a band, all revenue is yours. And on top of that touring costs are minimal (a midi controller and a laptop) so you're extracting the maximum profit from each show. If you want a financially successful career in music this is probably the most sure route to take.

Edit: A lot of people responding are bringing up the point that production costs for most genres are now relatively low. While that's true when it comes to actually making money from the music that's much easier in electronic music for the reasons I gave above (one person, very little gear to drag around, no band to pay).

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#29

Post by at-fates-hands »

baldfat wrote: post #23

I owned a SMALL Record Label and Studio. I was (still?) good at picking out talent in bands. The Whole Industry Sucks I had two bands that ended up on Major Labels and Toured the World. I met a kid on the street wearing one of my Bands shirts and struck up a conversation. They still love the band 10 years later. These guys per person made at the TOP $7,000 in profit after expenses were paid. One band did a KickStarte…

I used to work in a record shop and found out first hand how much promotion a band needs just to sell a few CD's. I can't tell you how many insanely good bands died because either the label didn't promote them, or they just ran out of cash and quit.

The only problem I see nowadays is there's virtually no vetting process. It used to be the good bands would eventually rise to the top and the shitty garage bands would be relegated to small venues. Today, there's such an over saturation of music. Artists have thousands of avenues to get their music out. As a huge music fan, how do I sort through all the noise to find a truly good band, and not some guy programming the guitars, drums tracks and bass and then does the vocals himself?

Today, I just stick with a small handful of bands that I can support and just keep an eye out for new bands. There's just way too much noise to signal ratio for me to sit and search for hours on end to find one decent band, only to find out they broke up five years ago.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#30

Post by yolesaber »

bantunes wrote: post #4

Miles Davis on Steve Miller: “Steve Miller didn’t have his shit going for him, so I’m pissed because I got to open for this non-playing motherfucker just because he had one or two sorry-ass records out. So I would come late and he would have to go on first and then when we got there, we smoked the motherfucking place, and everybody dug it.” http://www.openculture.com/2015/05/miles-davis-opens-for-nei...

I mean, to be fair, Steve Miller is like the blandest of bland dad rock. And Miles Davis is literally the coolest person who ever lived.
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