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Sample workflow for LP digitization

manual.audacityteam.org

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Re: Sample workflow for LP digitization

#21

Post by rfrank »

ams6110 wrote: post #18
don_loemax wrote: post #10

As a club DJ who selects and plays in a digital format now, I like to leave clicks and pops in when digitizing my "white-labels" or vinyl-exclusive releases (some of the best or most coveted tunes are released on vinyl first in very small runs, months before they are available as downloads). I like to normalize then run the recording through Izotope's Ozone 7 on the "warm and transparent" preset to get it closer in l…

Why is this done? Tradition? Certainly it's an extra expense that releasing in pure digital format would not include -- and it's not like all the music is not mastered digitally now anyway -- nobody is mastering on tape and cutting and splicing....

White labels and dubplates in general hearken back to the sound system culture that originated in Jamaica [1]. Mostly a means of getting the newest songs fastest; record something in the morning, press your dubplate that afternoon, play it out that night. The unofficial nature of the recordings makes it easier to hop around copyright stuff and not clear samples, etc. The song Alicia by Mala jumps to mind [2], I don't think it's ever seen a proper release because of the heavy use of Alicia Keys samples.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_system_%28Jamaican%29 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpV7radKuwo

Re: Sample workflow for LP digitization

#22

Post by semi-extrinsic »

keithpeter wrote: post #7
chiph wrote: post #3

I didn't see it mentioned, but I wonder if Audacity inverts the RIAA equalization curve. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_equalization

You are right, there is no mention of the turntable/stylus/preamplifier configuration at all. I would guess that the Audacity people assume that people would be using a turntable plugged into a preamplifier with RIAA equilisation built in. http://midimagic.sgc-hosting.com/mixphono.htm History before the 1950s is complex. Audacity has provision for defining a frequency response curve and applying that curve to a proje…

As bondaburrah points out in the sibling comment, there are probably no consumer sound cards in existence that would be able to record a non-preamplified vinyl recording. So the RIAA equalisation issue is moot.

Re: Sample workflow for LP digitization

#23

Post by anexprogrammer »

When I rip vinyl I want as little processing as possible, so no messing around with high pass and pop removal. If it's new or decent condition vinyl the pops and hiss will be barely audible anyway.

Far more important to have a decent MC cartridge, and make sure it goes through a decent phono (RIAA) stage, which generally means an older hifi amp, or not-cheap hifi component.

Any phono stage of the last 20 years, or the "rip your old records" turntables generally use lowest quality crap going.

Re: Sample workflow for LP digitization

#24

Post by ams6110 »

rfrank wrote: post #21
ams6110 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this done? Tradition? Certainly it's an extra expense that releasing in pure digital format would not include -- and it's not like all the music is not mastered digitally now anyway -- nobody is mastering on tape and cutting and splicing....

White labels and dubplates in general hearken back to the sound system culture that originated in Jamaica [1]. Mostly a means of getting the newest songs fastest; record something in the morning, press your dubplate that afternoon, play it out that night. The unofficial nature of the recordings makes it easier to hop around copyright stuff and not clear samples, etc. The song Alicia by Mala jumps to mind [2], I don't…

Again, I don't see how pressing a physical recording is making anything faster. It's a step that's entirely unnecessary if you distribute digitally. It must be more of a tradition, or a desire to mix on turntables, or possibly a way to do a limited/controlled release that is not easy to redistribute widely as a digital media file would be?

Re: Sample workflow for LP digitization

#25

Post by anexprogrammer »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #14
intopieces wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm firmly in the camp that mourns the victims of the loudness war, but it's important to keep in mind that "quality" is not something that can objectively measured, and every generation has its own perception of it. In MP3: The Meaning of a Format by Jonathan Sterne, he cites research done on "The MP3 generation" -- people who came of age when Napster was on the rise -- that found those listeners preferred the sound…

Eno was dead wrong about that. Outside of a marginal Kickstarter project - probably for a Japanese fanbase - I don't think anyone is going to pay money for a high-jitter 12-bit resolution retro CD player. Comparing that to the stylised imperfections of a human performer is unconvincing. I do think there's an interesting effect where as soon as a first-to-market technology becomes good enough to avoid being hopelessly…

But there are chip tune bands who emulate 8 bit. That people pay money to see. So I can well imagine a niche for emulating flawed CDs.

Re: Sample workflow for LP digitization

#26

Post by tomc1985 »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #14
intopieces wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm firmly in the camp that mourns the victims of the loudness war, but it's important to keep in mind that "quality" is not something that can objectively measured, and every generation has its own perception of it. In MP3: The Meaning of a Format by Jonathan Sterne, he cites research done on "The MP3 generation" -- people who came of age when Napster was on the rise -- that found those listeners preferred the sound…

Eno was dead wrong about that. Outside of a marginal Kickstarter project - probably for a Japanese fanbase - I don't think anyone is going to pay money for a high-jitter 12-bit resolution retro CD player. Comparing that to the stylised imperfections of a human performer is unconvincing. I do think there's an interesting effect where as soon as a first-to-market technology becomes good enough to avoid being hopelessly…

I love how people naively pass judgement on an aesthetic, as if everyone's tastes were like theirs.

Besides, it doesn't matter if it sounds human or not, that's not the point. Old hardware introduces a lot of weird harmonics that often affect future stages in the signal chain in a big way. Predictably enough that one can make art with it -- and it's hard to emulate that in software.

Re: Sample workflow for LP digitization

#27

Post by rwjwjuwjudf »

ams6110 wrote: post #24
rfrank wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

White labels and dubplates in general hearken back to the sound system culture that originated in Jamaica [1]. Mostly a means of getting the newest songs fastest; record something in the morning, press your dubplate that afternoon, play it out that night. The unofficial nature of the recordings makes it easier to hop around copyright stuff and not clear samples, etc. The song Alicia by Mala jumps to mind [2], I don't…

Again, I don't see how pressing a physical recording is making anything faster. It's a step that's entirely unnecessary if you distribute digitally. It must be more of a tradition, or a desire to mix on turntables, or possibly a way to do a limited/controlled release that is not easy to redistribute widely as a digital media file would be?

He did say this, but maybe it wasn't clear. It's faster because you can skip the meaningless bureaucracy associated with obtaining copyright permission for a tiny run - a lot of dance music samples other music. If you try that with a digital release, it can bite you if it blows up.

Re: Sample workflow for LP digitization

#28

Post by rzzzt »

boondaburrah wrote: post #13
chiph wrote: post #3

I didn't see it mentioned, but I wonder if Audacity inverts the RIAA equalization curve. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_equalization

Back when I used audacity, I recall there being an RIAA preset in the EQ plugin designed for reversing the EQ on records. I never wound up using it though because LPs still require significant preamp before your average sound card can get a good recording, and any phono preamp I had of course had the RIAA circuitry in it already.

It should still be present in the EQ presets list, if the screenshot is reasonably up-to-date here: http://manual.audacityteam.org/o/man/equalization.html#manag...

One use the guide mentions is using it in inverted mode, if you want to undo the effects of incorrectly applied RIAA equalization (eg. when a 78 rpm record is being digitized with a different pre-emphasis method).

Re: Sample workflow for LP digitization

#29

Post by Animats »

Of course, the real way to do this is to optically scan the record and simulate a stylus tracking it. The Library of Congress does this.[1] They've even recovered records broken into pieces, by scanning the pieces and reassembling the 3D model.

[1] http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/06/how-a-...

Re: Sample workflow for LP digitization

#30

Post by anon4 »

rwjwjuwjudf wrote: post #27
ams6110 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, I don't see how pressing a physical recording is making anything faster. It's a step that's entirely unnecessary if you distribute digitally. It must be more of a tradition, or a desire to mix on turntables, or possibly a way to do a limited/controlled release that is not easy to redistribute widely as a digital media file would be?

He did say this, but maybe it wasn't clear. It's faster because you can skip the meaningless bureaucracy associated with obtaining copyright permission for a tiny run - a lot of dance music samples other music. If you try that with a digital release, it can bite you if it blows up.

No, he means like if you write the flac to a flash drive. Just write it to a digital medium, rather than go to the trouble of pressing discs.
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