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Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

nytimes.com

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Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#21
post #18

Shouldn't reefs just migrate north in the northern hemisphere, and southwards in the southern hemisphere? I know this process can be quite slow, but on a long enough time frame it's conceivable there may be no net loss and possibly even a gain global reef acreage?

A temperature delta over a millennium is very different than that same delta over a century. Coral reef ecosystems take centuries to establish themselves and mature. They can't simply grow legs and walk a couple miles north every year.

To answer your question: sure, 2000 years from now it's hard to predict total acreage, and it may well be higher (or lower). But there's little uncertainty that on the timescale of centuries, corals will be devastated, and that means really bad things for us and our children, to say nothing of the health of marine ecosystems.

Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#22
Australian here (that was very hard for me to confess)

There was a bit on the news about the massive bleaching event up north, a few mentions on tv. Once in the paper.

My current minister for the environment Greg Hunt, or as he is know amongst his admirers: " Fucking Festering Cunt Hunt", and his jolly band of Liberals (don't be confused, in Australia "Liberal" means far-right fucking nutjob) could care less about the environment and have, on national TV, dismissed climate change as "absolute crap".

We elected this government, and there is a significant chance that we will vote for them again before the end of the year. Fuck me dead if I know why.

I apologize for the cussing, but I believe its appropriate.

(edit: added more fucks)

Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#23
post #12

At this point I welcome catastrophe. Nobody listens anyway so a clear message from nature is the only way.

Yeah, the deaths of millions of poor farmers in developing countries will totally get the West to start caring about the problem!

Yeah or millions of migrants heading to Europe fleeing ISIS, a situation in which climate change has played a massive role.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/climate-change-and...

Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#25

There is a whole lot of climate change evidence coming out that is terrifying. At what point does this become so scary that something happens to increase the taxes on fossil fuels so that consumption will go down? Falling renewable prices are not enough, and use-based taxes are the single best way to let individuals make their own decisions about what/how much to use. Carbon credits are a good market-based solution t…

It's very sad that reefs are dying, but it seems that their whole existence was very much tied to a very specific amount of carbon in the atmosphere. (about 265 ppm co2) The scary thing is that these reefs are so incredibly diverse & their creation took millions of years. Millions of years to create and they can be globally destroyed in just 200 or so years. It's also scary is to consider what else may be balanced ju…

The Great Barrier Reef formed over the last 14,000 years since the last Ice Age rather than million years as you suggest. And while the vast colonies may die, and their calcareous skeletons may dissolve as the ocean acidifies, the polyps themselves will probably survive fine in different forms in other ecological niches. This will be no help for the diverse array of creatures that rely on the reefs, or associated fisheries and tourism industries however.

Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#26

There is a whole lot of climate change evidence coming out that is terrifying. At what point does this become so scary that something happens to increase the taxes on fossil fuels so that consumption will go down? Falling renewable prices are not enough, and use-based taxes are the single best way to let individuals make their own decisions about what/how much to use. Carbon credits are a good market-based solution t…

It's very sad that reefs are dying, but it seems that their whole existence was very much tied to a very specific amount of carbon in the atmosphere. (about 265 ppm co2) The scary thing is that these reefs are so incredibly diverse & their creation took millions of years. Millions of years to create and they can be globally destroyed in just 200 or so years. It's also scary is to consider what else may be balanced ju…

The rest of the ocean might be balanced precariously on how acid they are.

Slight increases make it impossible for some creatures to create shells. Those creatures are key parts of the food chain, which means that fisheries (already under sever pressure from over-fishing) risk total collapse.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/05/140502-ocean...

http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/What+is+Ocean+Acidificati...

But not all species are going to be vulnerable to this. Some grow thicker shells. http://www.whoi.edu/oceanus/feature/ocean-acidification--a-r...

> Under very high experimental CO2 conditions, the shells of clams, oysters, and some snails and urchins partially dissolved. But other species seemed as if they would not be harmed, and crustaceans, such as lobsters, crabs, and prawns, appeared to increase their shell-building (see interactive).

Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#27
I had understood Terry Hughes comments [1] to be that he _expects_ up to half the corals that bleach to die. Has their been follow up surveys already? The final mortality could be much worse, particularly among the ornate, fast growing species, but it will be tough to know for a little while yet. [1] http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-28/great-barrier-reef-cor...

Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#28
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So true. Washington is too tainted by vested interests that seek to procrastinate shift. Time has literally run out. From here we are already in catch up mode. It seems like a revolution is necessary to stop them from acting against humanity's long term existence for their short term financial gain.

Washington could be taken over by the Green party, ban fossil fuels, etc - and we'd still be in trouble due to China, et al with their increasing CO2 output. Reminds me a bit of banning plastic bags in California to help the ocean. That's lovely, but given Asia dumps something like 150 times the amount plastics into the ocean, so is basically meaningless.

> banning plastic bags in California to help the ocean

They were banned because they don't decompose, so they end up all over the place. Not just in the ocean, but on the beach, in creeks, lakes, anywhere near a highway, etc. As an example local to Silicon Valley, Stevens Creek used to be completely clogged with plastic bags. It's gotten a lot better now.

Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#29
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So true. Washington is too tainted by vested interests that seek to procrastinate shift. Time has literally run out. From here we are already in catch up mode. It seems like a revolution is necessary to stop them from acting against humanity's long term existence for their short term financial gain.

Washington could be taken over by the Green party, ban fossil fuels, etc - and we'd still be in trouble due to China, et al with their increasing CO2 output. Reminds me a bit of banning plastic bags in California to help the ocean. That's lovely, but given Asia dumps something like 150 times the amount plastics into the ocean, so is basically meaningless.

Its not meaningless. Its millions of tons of plastic less, it may be the 2% margin that matters.

Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#30
post #19

When discussing environmental stuff, often activists will say that I "deny climate change". I understand what they mean (that I don't believe the risk of catastrophic anthropogenic climate change is grave enough to demand government intervention) but I still have to point out that we live on a rocky planet in space, where everything including the climate constantly changes. You might be alarmed by a very specific cha…

If you want to wallow in ignorance about how and why "the climate constantly changes" and what that means for our civilization, that is your prerogative.

But don't expect to be treated with respect.

You're making a pitiful excuse to dismiss trends that threaten trillions of dollars of inherited infrastructure investment that is at risk of being made useless, and that threaten the comfort and safety of billions of people.

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