San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents • Hacker News Board

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#21

Post by dkopi » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 4:54 PM UTC

simook wrote: post #2

Portland resident here. What this article doesn't cover, is now locals are victim of gentrification. Rent prices are almost 2x, out of state buyers are throwing all cash offers on houses, and overall housing supply is low... I'm sure the commercial market is just as bad. Interesting times.

It's 2016, and people still think that if someone moves into your neighborhood, someone else has to move out.

Rising demand is great. It means people want to enjoy your neighborhood. You can either meet that demand by increasing supply, or you can restrict the demand, and let certain people be outpriced by the market.

Locals aren't victims of gentrification. They're victims of zoning laws and nimbyism.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#22

Post by 1_2__3 » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 4:54 PM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #9

"They’ve increased 38 percent in Seattle, 12 percent in Austin and 6 percent in Phoenix." The article names the usual suspects for engineer emigrants (Austin, Portland, strangely no mention of NYC or Raleigh RTP), but why are people moving to Phoenix? Isn't living in the less sexy areas of South Bay (Sunnyvale, Milpitas, South San Jose) pretty much on par with urban life in Phoenix?

Do you somehow think those places are significantly cheaper than San Francisco? They're not.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#23

Post by Grishnakh » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 4:54 PM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #9

"They’ve increased 38 percent in Seattle, 12 percent in Austin and 6 percent in Phoenix." The article names the usual suspects for engineer emigrants (Austin, Portland, strangely no mention of NYC or Raleigh RTP), but why are people moving to Phoenix? Isn't living in the less sexy areas of South Bay (Sunnyvale, Milpitas, South San Jose) pretty much on par with urban life in Phoenix?

>but why are people moving to Phoenix? Isn't living in the less sexy areas of South Bay (Sunnyvale, Milpitas, South San Jose) pretty much on par with urban life in Phoenix?

No way. Phoenix is a wonderful place to live! The weather is beautiful! Forget that stuff you read about the heat; you'll get used to it. It's a dry heat!

Seriously, if you live in the Bay Area or Portland or Seattle, move to Phoenix! It's great! There's plenty of room for everyone there! They even have excellent public transit with the Light Rail!

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#24

Post by cloudjacker » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 4:55 PM UTC

api wrote: post #11

mcguire wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When did San Francisco become the hot property? I know that the last time I was out there, about 2005, tech was still in the valley and SF proper was relatively low rent, bad neighborhoods, and no tech presence. Does this industry (to the extent that you can call AirBNB, Uber, and Twitter the same industry) really act like a flock of grackles or starlings, descending on a place, eating everything, and moving on?

It seems to be full of people who want to be near art and "cool" people. Unfortunately tech doesn't find a way to pay those creators of culture anything. If anything, the focus is on finding ways to make everything free. So tech moves in, enjoys the presence of creative culture they refuse to fund, but ultimately inflates real estate so much they drive that creative culture away. Rinse and repeat. If art and culture…

Because its not just any form of expression that people want.

The artists shouldn't have balked at taking a class in economics.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#25

Post by Apocryphon » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 4:56 PM UTC

TYPE_FASTER wrote: post #18

Apocryphon wrote: post #9

"They’ve increased 38 percent in Seattle, 12 percent in Austin and 6 percent in Phoenix." The article names the usual suspects for engineer emigrants (Austin, Portland, strangely no mention of NYC or Raleigh RTP), but why are people moving to Phoenix? Isn't living in the less sexy areas of South Bay (Sunnyvale, Milpitas, South San Jose) pretty much on par with urban life in Phoenix?

http://www.zillow.com/phoenix-az/home-values/ http://www.zillow.com/sunnyvale-ca/home-values/

I wonder if the tech sprawl will force people to live further and further south. Coyote Valley, Morgan Hill, Gilroy?

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#26

Post by seivan » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 4:58 PM UTC

dkopi wrote: post #21

simook wrote: post #2

Portland resident here. What this article doesn't cover, is now locals are victim of gentrification. Rent prices are almost 2x, out of state buyers are throwing all cash offers on houses, and overall housing supply is low... I'm sure the commercial market is just as bad. Interesting times.

It's 2016, and people still think that if someone moves into your neighborhood, someone else has to move out. Rising demand is great. It means people want to enjoy your neighborhood. You can either meet that demand by increasing supply, or you can restrict the demand, and let certain people be outpriced by the market. Locals aren't victims of gentrification. They're victims of zoning laws and nimbyism.

Locals are also (usually anyway) the source of those. At least in Stockholm. Avoid building apartments for those less off because of "greenery". http://www.dn.se/sthlm/hyresgaster-stoppar-nya-grannar/

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#27

Post by Apocryphon » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 4:58 PM UTC

api wrote: post #11

mcguire wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When did San Francisco become the hot property? I know that the last time I was out there, about 2005, tech was still in the valley and SF proper was relatively low rent, bad neighborhoods, and no tech presence. Does this industry (to the extent that you can call AirBNB, Uber, and Twitter the same industry) really act like a flock of grackles or starlings, descending on a place, eating everything, and moving on?

It seems to be full of people who want to be near art and "cool" people. Unfortunately tech doesn't find a way to pay those creators of culture anything. If anything, the focus is on finding ways to make everything free. So tech moves in, enjoys the presence of creative culture they refuse to fund, but ultimately inflates real estate so much they drive that creative culture away. Rinse and repeat. If art and culture…

I'm not sure if a lot of the hip tech transplants want art. They just want the aesthetics.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#28

Post by gd2 » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 4:58 PM UTC

api wrote: post #11

mcguire wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When did San Francisco become the hot property? I know that the last time I was out there, about 2005, tech was still in the valley and SF proper was relatively low rent, bad neighborhoods, and no tech presence. Does this industry (to the extent that you can call AirBNB, Uber, and Twitter the same industry) really act like a flock of grackles or starlings, descending on a place, eating everything, and moving on?

It seems to be full of people who want to be near art and "cool" people. Unfortunately tech doesn't find a way to pay those creators of culture anything. If anything, the focus is on finding ways to make everything free. So tech moves in, enjoys the presence of creative culture they refuse to fund, but ultimately inflates real estate so much they drive that creative culture away. Rinse and repeat. If art and culture…

True, but isn't part of it that one thinks that on the $9 album, the marketing and media company folks gets $8.50 of $9.00

But there is also artistry in creating a coffee or dining experience, and hopefully that money spent on the meal and coffee goes more to the chef artist who prepared the meal, the architect artist who designed the space, and the line cook, waitress and dishwasher.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#29

Post by sov » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 4:59 PM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #9

"They’ve increased 38 percent in Seattle, 12 percent in Austin and 6 percent in Phoenix." The article names the usual suspects for engineer emigrants (Austin, Portland, strangely no mention of NYC or Raleigh RTP), but why are people moving to Phoenix? Isn't living in the less sexy areas of South Bay (Sunnyvale, Milpitas, South San Jose) pretty much on par with urban life in Phoenix?

It's interesting that Seattle's rent has raised 38 percent, but I am left wondering if some of that is related to their ~37% minimum wage increase in the last year.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#30

Post by seivan » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 5:00 PM UTC

api wrote: post #11

mcguire wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When did San Francisco become the hot property? I know that the last time I was out there, about 2005, tech was still in the valley and SF proper was relatively low rent, bad neighborhoods, and no tech presence. Does this industry (to the extent that you can call AirBNB, Uber, and Twitter the same industry) really act like a flock of grackles or starlings, descending on a place, eating everything, and moving on?

It seems to be full of people who want to be near art and "cool" people. Unfortunately tech doesn't find a way to pay those creators of culture anything. If anything, the focus is on finding ways to make everything free. So tech moves in, enjoys the presence of creative culture they refuse to fund, but ultimately inflates real estate so much they drive that creative culture away. Rinse and repeat. If art and culture…

Tech isn't creative and artistic? Why is an "album" worth more than a graphics engine, drawing app or game?

If anything music is overvalued. I'm surprised we haven't automated Skrillex and all that house crap yet. ;-)