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JQuery 1.4.2 Released

blog.jquery.com

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Re: JQuery 1.4.2 Released

#21

Post by timdorr »

Silhouette wrote: post #18
jeresig wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The project just makes breaking changes way too often, e.g., the earlier 1.4 builds try to take over IE's event model and get it wrong, not only breaking jQuery's own code but also breaking all the tried and tested workarounds we've been using for years." Woah, woah - what's this? We had a bug relating to the improved change event in jQuery 1.4 which was fixed in 1.4.1 (one week later) and improved in 1.4.2 (two wee…

You seemed to have the particular issues I was thinking of there in your bug tracker already, and it seemed to be acknowledged that the underlying problem was still there in 1.4.1 but hopefully fixed in what was at the time the nightlies and is now presumably 1.4.2. But that isn't really the point. While I commend you for trying to provide a cross-browser portable event model, the fact is that the changes in 1.4 got…

I think you've just misunderstood the semantics of how jQuery labels it's releases. 1.4 should really be 4.0 for your internal purposes. Point releases can break (and have broken) APIs.

Or are you saying Prototype is more stable to develop on because it's own development is at a near stand still?

Re: JQuery 1.4.2 Released

#22

Post by jsdalton »

Nycto wrote: post #5

I've been using Prototype for, oh, maybe 4 years now. I really like it. However, the rift between it and jQuery is becoming large enough that my company is considering re-factoring our existing code to use jQuery instead. It seems to have Prototype beat on speed, size, community, modularity and compatibility. Any advice floating around out there? Are there any reasons to stick with Prototype?

If you make the switch, you might want to investigate this library: http://documentcloud.github.com/underscore/

"Underscore is a utility-belt library for JavaScript that provides a lot of the functional programming support that you would expect in Prototype.js (or Ruby), but without extending any of the built-in JavaScript objects. It's the tie to go along with jQuery's tux."

Re: JQuery 1.4.2 Released

#23

Post by schammy »

pmsaue0 wrote: post #17
Nycto wrote: post #5

I've been using Prototype for, oh, maybe 4 years now. I really like it. However, the rift between it and jQuery is becoming large enough that my company is considering re-factoring our existing code to use jQuery instead. It seems to have Prototype beat on speed, size, community, modularity and compatibility. Any advice floating around out there? Are there any reasons to stick with Prototype?

The only reason I might come up with to stick w prototype is that it takes time to switch you app to jQuery. That's the ONLY one. jQuery is too easy to learn; way more community -- and in that regard, Scriptaculous is pretty much dead. if RoR you can use jRails to try to keep functionality in your app (if that's what you use)

Agree 100%. I was a prototype user a long time ago. When I discovered jQuery I couldn't believe how much more amazing it was. I'm a huge jQuery advocate now and would never in a million years touch prototype ever again. jQuery just makes sense, the code is so easy to write and so legible and logical, and overall is the best thing that ever happened to javascript. I feel bad for anyone still stuck on prototype - you have no idea what you're missing.

Re: JQuery 1.4.2 Released

#24

Post by simonw »

Silhouette wrote: post #18
jeresig wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The project just makes breaking changes way too often, e.g., the earlier 1.4 builds try to take over IE's event model and get it wrong, not only breaking jQuery's own code but also breaking all the tried and tested workarounds we've been using for years." Woah, woah - what's this? We had a bug relating to the improved change event in jQuery 1.4 which was fixed in 1.4.1 (one week later) and improved in 1.4.2 (two wee…

You seemed to have the particular issues I was thinking of there in your bug tracker already, and it seemed to be acknowledged that the underlying problem was still there in 1.4.1 but hopefully fixed in what was at the time the nightlies and is now presumably 1.4.2. But that isn't really the point. While I commend you for trying to provide a cross-browser portable event model, the fact is that the changes in 1.4 got…

It sounds like your usage of jQuery is advanced enough that you'd benefit from getting involved in the jQuery alpha and beta releases - just dropping them in to your projects temporarily and filing any bugs that come up.

Re: JQuery 1.4.2 Released

#26

Post by simonw »

aswanson wrote: post #25

Can someone summarize in a few sentences what jquery is and why I should learn to use it?

It's more than a few sentences, but here's something I wrote a few years ago about why jQuery should be of interest to JavaScript programmers: http://simonwillison.net/2007/Aug/15/jquery/

Re: JQuery 1.4.2 Released

#27

Post by moe »

simonw wrote: post #24
Silhouette wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seemed to have the particular issues I was thinking of there in your bug tracker already, and it seemed to be acknowledged that the underlying problem was still there in 1.4.1 but hopefully fixed in what was at the time the nightlies and is now presumably 1.4.2. But that isn't really the point. While I commend you for trying to provide a cross-browser portable event model, the fact is that the changes in 1.4 got…

It sounds like your usage of jQuery is advanced enough that you'd benefit from getting involved in the jQuery alpha and beta releases - just dropping them in to your projects temporarily and filing any bugs that come up.

Also he may consider simply getting off the bleeding edge and falling back a little - surf behind the curve.

We're still on jquery 1.3.2 and have no plans for upgrading until there's a genuine need (e.g. a plugin requiring a newer version).

Installing a freshly released version of anything is just asking for trouble.

Re: JQuery 1.4.2 Released

#28

Post by Silhouette »

moe wrote: post #27
simonw wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like your usage of jQuery is advanced enough that you'd benefit from getting involved in the jQuery alpha and beta releases - just dropping them in to your projects temporarily and filing any bugs that come up.

Also he may consider simply getting off the bleeding edge and falling back a little - surf behind the curve. We're still on jquery 1.3.2 and have no plans for upgrading until there's a genuine need (e.g. a plugin requiring a newer version). Installing a freshly released version of anything is just asking for trouble.

FWIW, it was the potential performance improvements more than the new features that we were interested in. The project that hit the event model problems is a fairly complicated UI, which does a lot of manipulation of the DOM to build forms whose contents change dynamically.

Regarding participating in alpha and beta releases, as suggested by the GP post: speaking personally, I'm happy to contribute to projects I find worthwhile (which certainly includes jQuery). I did check whether the issues we had were known in the jQuery bug tracker, for example.

But my colleagues and I are contractors, often paid on a time and materials basis. I would not be comfortable billing my client for time I was spending testing and reporting bugs on pre-release versions of third party libraries, because that's not what my client pays me for. And that means that if I choose to use a certain library to support a project and then I spend time helping its pre-release testing, it has a direct financial cost to me.

Keeping in mind the context of this discussion -- whether someone should change their project from one library to another -- I think it is fair to balance any potential benefits from the rapid pace of development with awareness of these potential costs. It doesn't mean moving to jQuery is a bad idea, nor that jQuery's approach is wrong, nor that jQuery is somehow a bad project. It's just another factor that should be considered before making a decision.

Re: JQuery 1.4.2 Released

#29

Post by Silhouette »

timdorr wrote: post #21
Silhouette wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seemed to have the particular issues I was thinking of there in your bug tracker already, and it seemed to be acknowledged that the underlying problem was still there in 1.4.1 but hopefully fixed in what was at the time the nightlies and is now presumably 1.4.2. But that isn't really the point. While I commend you for trying to provide a cross-browser portable event model, the fact is that the changes in 1.4 got…

I think you've just misunderstood the semantics of how jQuery labels it's releases. 1.4 should really be 4.0 for your internal purposes. Point releases can break (and have broken) APIs. Or are you saying Prototype is more stable to develop on because it's own development is at a near stand still?

The greatest concern I had wasn't that the update broke a jQuery API, it's that it also broke general JS techniques and IE-specific workarounds that were previously outside the scope of jQuery.

Also, if even the smallest increments (e.g., 1.3.1 to 1.3.2) can change fundamental behaviour in ways that may require adjustments in existing code to keep things working, then that is a negative point to balance the positive side of using a project under active development. It means you can't count on using any bug fixes or pure performance improvements without having to take on functional changes as well, and that is a significant maintenance risk.

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