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PrlConf 2016 is cancelled

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Re: PrlConf 2016 is cancelled

#21

Post by jonsterling »

saryant wrote: post #16
MattRogish wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, he's no garden variety racist. He's the creator of the "Neoreactionary Movement" http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Neoreactionary_movement Regardless of whether or not you think a racist should or should not present (be paid to speak? Edit: they are not paid to speak at this conf although some expenses are covered) the founder of a pro slavery, pro facist movement speaking at your conference is a different sort of t…

FWIW, LambdaConf speakers are not paid.

Correct; we are typically given funding to attend though. (Travel & hotel expenses, free ticket to the conference.)

Re: PrlConf 2016 is cancelled

#22

Post by OoTheNigerian »

I'm African and should be very disgusted by this person's views (I am) [1]

However, the views were written under a pseudonym years ago and has no bearing on technology.

Basically, these were anonymous talks jotted down somewhere.

It is shocking that this person John Sterling canceling this talk thinks it's a good idea to permanently sentence a person for what the wrote UNDER A PSEUDONYM years ago and may or may not longer think the thoughts.

This is the height of intolerance I have ever seen. Left to this guy, thinking absurd stuff today about various issues (not even acting on it) should banish on from society when it is discovered in 2 decades.

I unreservedly condemn such intolerance and declare it far more dangerous than folks who think Africans are a lower species. One is an uneducated thought the other a dangerous totalitarian action.

[1]https://twitter.com/aphyr/status/606576005667504129

Re: PrlConf 2016 is cancelled

#24

Post by llamataboot »

llamataboot wrote: post #9
pmalynin wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. Is their belief system so fragile, that letting a person speak will destroy it???

Nope, not about fragility at all. It's about creating spaces where a large chunk of people aren't being literally attacked (and told they are better suited to being slaves) by a speaker. What's the problem? Free speech can also mean no speech. I have no problem with people pulling out if they disagree so strongly with the social views of another participant. This isn't the government smashing someone's printing press…

and here comes the onslaught on downvotes by the anti-PC police. Why do I have a suspicion that EVERY downvote is coming from a white cis male?

Re: PrlConf 2016 is cancelled

#25

Post by lhnz »

It all comes down to this argument [0] in which he attempts to defend the offending opinion that has been linked to everywhere ("Why Carlyle Matters" [1]).

I agree with the commenter that he does seem to be trying to deflect as he avoided using the word 'intelligence' or 'character' and carefully used an anecdote hiding behind a third-party in response. His own response suggests that he lost respect for the Native Americans for not making good slaves -- I wonder if he really means that, I honestly rolled my eyes at it.

I think the paragraph that people are angry about is just stupid. Even if you believe that the brain/character/intelligence can be affected by our genes, it doesn't immediately follow that 'slavery' is therefore due to character or intelligence. When I read that paragraph a few thoughts ran through my head like "this person needs to think about people's feelings before writing his thoughts down" and "are you sure well-adaptedness is the right frame to use when looking at slavery?" and "why does slavery have to be such a slippery concept to you? could it be that you're trying to build a motte-and-bailey in advance."

That said, I still do not think that the wrong beliefs warrant no-platforming. This is a tech conference and not a political one, and even if he was to speak politically informally it is better that reprehensible political views are said out in the open where they can be deconstructed and quashed.

Of course left-leaning people have every right to remove themselves from the room if they do not want to be near him; as are libertarians allowed to bow out from events like Strange Loop.

Either way the Streisand Effect [2] is at full force here. It's surely great for Urbit and Curtis Yarvin's weird politics. Maybe next time we can avoid giving him free publicity?

Edit: It looks like he responded to that comment, and his response is actually pretty decent. He thinks of talents as distributed and none of them carry special mystical significance to him (even intelligence.)

[0] https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/4bxf6f/im_curtis_yarv...

[1] http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.co.uk/2009/07/why-c...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

Re: PrlConf 2016 is cancelled

#26

Post by carapace »

It is correct and proper to shun and revile a person who actually advocates slavery.

To say, "Well, as long as he is not advocating slavery at the con, that's fine." is ridiculous.

Throw the racist evil nasty bum out and let someone else who actually deserves the timeslot talk.

Re: PrlConf 2016 is cancelled

#27

Post by llamataboot »

llamataboot wrote: post #24
llamataboot wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, not about fragility at all. It's about creating spaces where a large chunk of people aren't being literally attacked (and told they are better suited to being slaves) by a speaker. What's the problem? Free speech can also mean no speech. I have no problem with people pulling out if they disagree so strongly with the social views of another participant. This isn't the government smashing someone's printing press…

and here comes the onslaught on downvotes by the anti-PC police. Why do I have a suspicion that EVERY downvote is coming from a white cis male?

I don't know what part of "free speech also means no speech" and "voluntarily not speaking has nothing to do with censorship" is a hard argument, even for the most staunch Libertarian.

Re: PrlConf 2016 is cancelled

#29

Post by jonsterling »

OoTheNigerian wrote: post #22

I'm African and should be very disgusted by this person's views (I am) [1] However, the views were written under a pseudonym years ago and has no bearing on technology. Basically, these were anonymous talks jotted down somewhere. It is shocking that this person John Sterling canceling this talk thinks it's a good idea to permanently sentence a person for what the wrote UNDER A PSEUDONYM years ago and may or may not l…

Curtis Yarvin still believes what he said years ago; he has written as much today on Reddit. I would not have made the decision I did if he had renounced his prior views. Lord knows, I had very regressive political views once upon a time, though never as horrid as his.

Re: PrlConf 2016 is cancelled

#30

Post by Karunamon »

MattRogish wrote: post #12
spicyj wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just so everyone's on the same page, some of the thoughts in question: https://twitter.com/aphyr/status/606576005667504129

Also, he's no garden variety racist. He's the creator of the "Neoreactionary Movement" http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Neoreactionary_movement Regardless of whether or not you think a racist should or should not present (be paid to speak? Edit: they are not paid to speak at this conf although some expenses are covered) the founder of a pro slavery, pro facist movement speaking at your conference is a different sort of t…

the founder of a pro slavery, pro facist movement speaking at your conference is a different sort of thing.

Unless he is speaking about pro slavery and pro fascism, I have absolutely no reason to care.

Can we please learn to separate technical concerns from nontechnical concerns? And before anyone starts replying with "they're one in the same!" - only under certain circumstances. If the subject of the talk is garbage collection in a programming language, what the speaker believes about anything other than garbage collection in a programming language is IRRELEVANT.

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