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Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

syonyk.blogspot.com

21–30 of 367 posts

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#21
post #13

This is a good place to share this with geeks who may not be into cars: I drive a 1994 Mercedes (W124 chassis). One of the most reliable cars ever made. Simple to repair yourself. A TON of info available online for anything you could want to fix. Pretty much (probably 100%) of all parts on the car are available super cheap as chinese replacements because the model was around for so long and so many of them are still…

@20.8 mpg city when new that's 10,000 gallons of fuel for 200k miles or ~30,000$ while gas is cheap. A Tesla model 3 (To Be Unveiled March 31st) is 35,000$, costs far less (~1/10th) for fuel, and is not 22 years old.

That's why people care about electric cars.

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#22
post #18

None of this seems "throwaway" to me. It just means that rather than build a product that ends up being repaired by a distributed army of mechanics, they are going "full stack" and aiming to repair everything in-house. To me that seems like the ideal system - some people like the author might enjoy repairing their own cars, but I would rather not.

Yep, and it makes sense for Tesla to do this. It's a new product, and the information they collect from maintenance and inspections is going to be invaluable for future revs.

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#23
post #13

This is a good place to share this with geeks who may not be into cars: I drive a 1994 Mercedes (W124 chassis). One of the most reliable cars ever made. Simple to repair yourself. A TON of info available online for anything you could want to fix. Pretty much (probably 100%) of all parts on the car are available super cheap as chinese replacements because the model was around for so long and so many of them are still…

Which model exactly? How is it more environmentally friendly than a Tesla? Surely the mileage is very poor...?

(I'm in the market for a cheap car and am genuinely interested in your answers ;-)

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#24
This is dumb. Can you replace the tie rods, brake pads, tires? So long as the regular maintenance items can be handled I don't see a problem. Electronic parts on other cars are getting herd to replace too - they do things like record the VIN code upon first use and refuse to work in a different car, all in the name of anti-theft. Also, as people get excited about self driving cars, safety becomes a huge concern. You have throttle, brakes, steering, camera systems, radar, all working together to achieve that. You're not going to be tampering with any of that stuff on any car in the near future.

So if regular maintenance items can be replaced, and body damage can be repaired, I don't see the complaint.

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#25
Not sure singling out Tesla is fair. Pretty much all the modern (built in 21st century) cars are far less serviceable and far less modular than they used to be before. The military designs are the only exception from this unfortunate trend, for the obvious reasons.

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#26
post #23
post #13

This is a good place to share this with geeks who may not be into cars: I drive a 1994 Mercedes (W124 chassis). One of the most reliable cars ever made. Simple to repair yourself. A TON of info available online for anything you could want to fix. Pretty much (probably 100%) of all parts on the car are available super cheap as chinese replacements because the model was around for so long and so many of them are still…

Which model exactly? How is it more environmentally friendly than a Tesla? Surely the mileage is very poor...? (I'm in the market for a cheap car and am genuinely interested in your answers ;-)

It's more environmentally friendly because it's already built.

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you want a connection to Big Brother, you want free super charging, you want software updates, you want free internet access and navigation, you want the free Spotify Account. My Car wouldnt have AutoPark, Summon, Traffic Aware Cruise Control, Lane Assist, Spotify, Autopilot, 50 ekstra Horse Power and so on, without the software updates the connection to Big Brother provides. (Euro Spec S85D)

How is the extra HP related to the Big Brother connection?

I don't remember the details, but in one of the recent updates they increased the performance at top speed and initial start (below 3 mph). Prior to that, 85D and 90D (all-wheel drive configuration) got a significant boost to its 0-60 performance via a software update.

Since all the hardware is controlled via a software firmware, they are able to tweak the voltage supply of each motor to decrease or increase output performance.

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#28
why wouldn't an electric car be easier to service? A combustible engine has so many moving parts, fuel pump, filter, oil changes, regulator, etc etc. an electric car is just a battery and an electric engine, which is actually a pretty old peice of technology.

I do concede that the battery is a pretty complex piece of engineering. My fear is that DRM "authorized" replacements will become like the toner cartridges of the future.

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#29
> A lot of Tesla fans claim that electric vehicles are inherently superior, because with fewer moving parts, they'll be able to stay on the road basically forever - no piston rings to wear, no transmissions to fail, no oil to change.

There are at least two major components that "wear out" in power electronics - capacitors and power transistors. Traditional vacuum-impregnated motor winding insulation also has a wear-out mechanism.

Electrolytic capacitors have both an electrolyte breakdown and dryout at extended temperatures and voltage. Film capacitors also have a (much slower) dielectric breakdown. Power transistors have two wear-out mechanisms: one that is based on thermal cycling of the wire bonds and one that is based on thermal cycling of the solder between the transistor and direct-copper-bonded substrate.

Datacenter-scale UPS addresses both of these with field-replaceable modules. The main AC and DC capacitor banks are replaceable in advance of failure, and power transistors are field replaceable in much larger power modules, typically only after a failure.

Vacuum-impregnated motor winding insulation is typically not completely void-free. The high dV/dt that a direct-connected inverter imposes on the windings causes large repetitive voltage spikes across the winding insulation. The voltage spikes trigger partial discharge in the voids, which in turn erodes the insulation.

IMO, long-lived electric cars should at least have capacitor banks that are schedule-replaced, and drive modules that are replaceable after failure. With the level of diagnostics and history monitoring available today, we should be able to replace both components in advance of failure as well.

Do electric cars have lower maintenance, longer life, and higher reliability than ICE cars? Definitely, probably, and probably, respectively. But "lower", "longer", and "higher" don't mean "zero", "forever", and "infinite".

Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars

#30
post #23
post #13

This is a good place to share this with geeks who may not be into cars: I drive a 1994 Mercedes (W124 chassis). One of the most reliable cars ever made. Simple to repair yourself. A TON of info available online for anything you could want to fix. Pretty much (probably 100%) of all parts on the car are available super cheap as chinese replacements because the model was around for so long and so many of them are still…

Which model exactly? How is it more environmentally friendly than a Tesla? Surely the mileage is very poor...? (I'm in the market for a cheap car and am genuinely interested in your answers ;-)

JshWright got it of course - reuse, then recycle, then buy new if you have to.

Mine is an E320 wagon. Any W124 or W126 chassis is a good bet as it's before Merc started going down hill in build quality.

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