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I’m a web developer and can't make anymore the simplest web app

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Re: I’m a web developer and can't make anymore the simplest web app

#21

> I’ve already laid out my models, but React.js likes to mix models and states and properties, so I had to rethink it => Redux > this Gulp configuration file... => Webpack This might be opinionated but for a personal SPA pet project without any legacy a good up to date stack has ES6/Babel, React, Redux, Webpack included. Curious what others prefer.

You just described his exact problem. He's confused by react so you tell him to use redux. He's intimidated by gulp so you tell him to use webpack. It doesn't matter what he uses, he just wants to write code and everyone telling him to use some other marginally different tool is just contributing to the paralysis.

> He's confused by react so you tell him to use redux.

I meant React + Redux, Redux or Flux is the missing piece for React. He used just React wondering how to manage the models, if he got a bit deeper in the React ecosystem he would have seen Redux or other Flux based frameworks. Besides, the React team and site explicitely states that some architecture such as Flux is required, so guess he just dipped just into React before he wrote his JS fatigue post.

> ...marginally different tool

Wouldn't agree with this. Tools/libs/frameworks are quite different and you can decide by comparing and having personal preferences. And the more choice the better tools. I don't know of any other ecosystem where such strong competition leads to so many innovations. Eg: Webpack, Redux and all the new kids on the block have significant learning curves but do this investment and you learn new stuff every minute and afterwards you are enlightened (if you like tech) because you find always something which works 10x better/faster/easier/more elegant than existing solutions. If you just want to get a job done, then learning new stuff might be perceived as too time-consuming and sticking to learned stuff allegedly seems easier.

Re: I’m a web developer and can't make anymore the simplest web app

#23
> Remember, this is a simple personal project, I mostly wanted to have fun, so my mind was set to zero-tolerance mode. As soon as something annoyed me I went away looking for something else to smoothen my experience

...

> Javascript mixed with HTML seems ugly after having tried React

I think these highlight the real problem. Because we are constantly bombarded by such cool tech, it is easy to notice that some aspect of something could be done in a better way. The key to success is to ignore those minor papercuts and just focus persisting on your own project.

Re: I’m a web developer and can't make anymore the simplest web app

#24
post #14

Seems like the author just has trouble making good choices.

I think you're right. At least build the thing first and then improve on it. Like, if you want to use TypeScript, try vanilla JS first, then rewrite it - not as hard with small projects.

Re: I’m a web developer and can't make anymore the simplest web app

#25

> Having worked mostly with C# in the last months, I remembered how cool it is to have a statically typed language Really? I used to work with Java. I sometimes miss type checking, but I don't miss the Java type system - is C# a lot better?

I find C# to be better, but things are ok everywhere as long as they're kept easy. I think that function (param?: Array) is simply better than function (param) because the IDE can hint you that the function accepts a single parameter, that it is optional and warns you if you try to pass a string because it must be an Array.

Re: I’m a web developer and can't make anymore the simplest web app

#26
post #15
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amen! I wrote a handful of offline-cacheable HTML5 apps made simply with CSS, vanilla JS, and HTML. Nothing more! Don't write a single line or character you don't need in the final result. I have 'app update fatigue' and often after I update an app I end up preferring previous versions I can no longer install or use again once they're 'updated away' and no longer current. My wants for what my phone or tablet can do a…

is there a reason you decided to list all of these apps unsolicited? nobody is going to read these

Yeah! A couple of years ago I thought JavaScript was hard, and I couldn't figure out how to do what I wanted. Somebody posted a teeny tiny code editor here on Hacker News and seeing the source code sparked something, and now I'm writing and releasing my own HTML apps and tools that help me and others.

I listed these here (with the source) to show how small and how LITTLE code you need. Each of these files are single-file apps - icon included! Many of these I either started or created on my iPad, showing that building HTML apps can be so simple that you can execute on the device itself.

I'm just putting it here hoping it can help somebody else. If that's no you, that's fine - but if it is I'm glad I took the time to write them out :)

Re: I’m a web developer and can't make anymore the simplest web app

#27

> I’ve already laid out my models, but React.js likes to mix models and states and properties, so I had to rethink it => Redux > this Gulp configuration file... => Webpack This might be opinionated but for a personal SPA pet project without any legacy a good up to date stack has ES6/Babel, React, Redux, Webpack included. Curious what others prefer.

You just described his exact problem. He's confused by react so you tell him to use redux. He's intimidated by gulp so you tell him to use webpack. It doesn't matter what he uses, he just wants to write code and everyone telling him to use some other marginally different tool is just contributing to the paralysis.

This. If you read the comments here seems like I've been stuck in analysis paralisis because I didn't use Redux, Webpack, Clojurescript, Ember. Guess what? Maybe I should investigate those four, right? This surely solves the problem. /s

Re: I’m a web developer and can't make anymore the simplest web app

#28
I have yet to see a "modern" JavaScript project that wasn't a witches brew of shitty decisions and dependency hell.

The last one I looked at, had an npm dependency tree like crab grass. No less than 9 copies of the same module, all different versions between 0.x and 6.x - and all that module does is parse query strings.

The best part was when the developer of said module release v6 changing all `var`s into `let`s and `const`s and then basically responded to people who filed bugs along the lines of "fuck you not my problem".

The last few years have seen both JavaScript and PHP gain community powered package management tools that actively encourage this type of behaviour, and until cool-kid developers understand that they need to actually be aware of the code they're relying on, nothing will change.

Re: I’m a web developer and can't make anymore the simplest web app

#29

This is so very, very silly. Yes, there are lots of options... just like development on any other platform or in any other language. If you allow yourself to be sidetracked by all the shiny things, of course you'll never get any real work done. And if decision paralysis is preventing you from even starting the project... well, I'm sorry to say you may not have the stamina that's needed to see a project to it's full c…

> Yes, there are lots of options... just like development on any other platform or in any other language. Errr, not really. Let's pick a platform/language: Java Build => maven (majority) Unit-Test => JUnit (majority), Mockito (helper) Version => don't care, anything from Java 5 and above are good enough Framework => Spring Framework or JEE (all batteries included) Keep in mind either Spring Framework or JEE do compon…

Well if we just want to pick majorities than we can do the exact same thing in JS.

Build => npm + Gulp (optional) + Webpack

Unit-Test => Karma + Jasmine or Karma + Mocha + Sinon

Framework => React+Redux+Data (modular) or Angular (all batteries included)

Same deal. High quality tools. You are pretending that there aren't hundreds of frameworks for Ruby (Cuba, Brooklyn, Scorched, Hobbit). The only people overwhelmed by choices are people afraid to make one.

Re: I’m a web developer and can't make anymore the simplest web app

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, there are lots of options... just like development on any other platform or in any other language. Errr, not really. Let's pick a platform/language: Java Build => maven (majority) Unit-Test => JUnit (majority), Mockito (helper) Version => don't care, anything from Java 5 and above are good enough Framework => Spring Framework or JEE (all batteries included) Keep in mind either Spring Framework or JEE do compon…

Well if we just want to pick majorities than we can do the exact same thing in JS. Build => npm + Gulp (optional) + Webpack Unit-Test => Karma + Jasmine or Karma + Mocha + Sinon Framework => React+Redux+Data (modular) or Angular (all batteries included) Same deal. High quality tools. You are pretending that there aren't hundreds of frameworks for Ruby (Cuba, Brooklyn, Scorched, Hobbit). The only people overwhelmed by…

It's not that simple I think.

For example, in the framework front, you guys argued that React is way better than Angular. I don't even know what's going on with Ember.js, Vue.js (fine, I'll give that this one is very new and untested), Backbone+Marionette.

I don't see that kind of argument in the other communities.

Your build: why are you omitting Grunt? What about broccoli and bower? what about Yeoman? Bower is kind of a big deal for front-end dev.

There's no "majority" in the JS world unlike the other ecosystems.

Cuba? I heard Cuba _once_ in HN. Brooklyn and the rest? never heard.

There are bajillion newer Java "microservice" frameworks but the usage is just rounding error.

Also keep in mind that in other ecosystems, the major players are already established while in JS ecosystems, all of them are considered new/young. There is no _established_ players for each tool segment (except unit-testing where I think Mocha is better than Jasmine, unfortunately due to lack of exposure and whatnot, Jasmine is still lurking around)

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