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Is it the Wealth Gap that's bad or the Empathy Gap that comes with it?

peternixey.com

21–30 of 108 posts

Re: Is it the Wealth Gap that's bad or the Empathy Gap that comes with it?

#21
> It doesn't matter to me at all that Bill Gates has more money than God, because he's empathetic to people who aren't as rich and aren't as great as he is,

I'm glad he learned empathy in his old age; but keep in mind that he was ruthless, manipulative, exploitative, and caused a lot of long-term damage throughout most of his working life.

That's the problem I have with the "rich" - our system (and lack of government oversight/enforcement) enables and encourages evil, as long as it makes profit.

Re: Is it the Wealth Gap that's bad or the Empathy Gap that comes with it?

#22
post #6

This guy put into much better words what I've been thinking for a while. It doesn't matter to me at all that Bill Gates has more money than God, because he's empathetic to people who aren't as rich and aren't as great as he is, and wants to continue to use his strength to lift people up instead of feathering his own nest even more. It's when people get the idea that "I'm better, so I deserve better than Them!" that r…

Can you give some examples of the "Really Bad Things" you are thinking of?

Not even as sinister as sibling comment here talking about genocides, these billionaires are wielding disproportionate political power to encourage policies that effect lower classes negatively to the benefit of their own bottom line.

On a foreign scale, defense contractors have a vested interest in keeping the Middle East unstable and have the political power to push congress towards putting more US forces there. Domestically, it's hard to find a more plausible explanation for so many state governors doing things like opting out of ACA, limiting unions, closing schools, or enabling the Flint water crisis.

Re: Is it the Wealth Gap that's bad or the Empathy Gap that comes with it?

#23
post #15

[deleted]

The article mentions that, and the author shares your sentiments. His point is that the wealthy lose perspective on the financial hardships of poorer people, leading to thoughtless actions/comments that grate on the poor over time. He describes this as an empathy gap, which coincides with a (not necessarily bad!) wealth gap.

Edited for spelling.

Re: Is it the Wealth Gap that's bad or the Empathy Gap that comes with it?

#24
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give some examples of the "Really Bad Things" you are thinking of?

use lobbyists. throw lots of soft money at politics. hold bazillions off shore so they can avoid as many taxes as possible. become patent trolls. buy back their own stock so they make themselves rich while screwing ordinary investors and employees and companies. pay less in taxes than their secretaries. Colluding into oligopolies and monopolies so that can extract monopoly profits. stop spending in a recession then c…

> buy back their own stock so they make themselves rich while screwing ordinary investors and employees and companies

I'm not sure how this is valid reasoning... Aren't stocks "bought-back" on the public market? If so, then buybacks would push up the stock price, which would benefit arbitrary investors directly (those who were willing to sell at a slightly higher price) and all investors indirectly.

Re: Is it the Wealth Gap that's bad or the Empathy Gap that comes with it?

#25
A few comments:

"If the most successful people are becoming more effective and the least successful remain consistently ineffectual then you get a divergence in wealth. If the baseline is zero and the top line goes up then the two of them diverge."

The author's mistake here is to assume "being more effective" has any real bearing on who is the most successful; random chance providing a substantial push in the right direction and then post-facto narratives denying chance are far more likely. Environmental factors increase exposure to upside of chance while minimizing the downside risk. Therefore, rich white people are typically thought of as the "most successful" people because they were born to a similar demographic which ensured they would land in an okay spot.

"Is it really such an issue if a few people get rich so a lot of people can wealthy?"

The "lot of people" aren't get wealthy. Most people are getting less wealthy while the very richest are getting substantially more wealthy. By and large, nobody is "getting rich" so much as "getting richer". As someone else said, "a rising tide lifts all boats, but most people can't afford a boat, so they drown."

"I’ve never met a wealthy person that hates the poor but I’m shocked by the number of poor(er) people I know who hate the wealthy. I never really understand why since they’ve never obviously suffered at the rich’s hands. But then it something doesn’t have to be obviously bad to add up. It just has to be occasional, careless or callous and over time it accumulates."

Ah, an out-of-touch comment by a rich man; the poor "hate" the rich because they frequently seem as though they are from a different and better planet, and they really think that it would be much better if all the poors could just move to that planet gracefully, like they did. After all, "I did it so anyone can do it." Completely and self-servingly ignoring the reality of wildly different starting conditions while subtly implying that their final superiority is some sort of inherent Aryan guarantee.

Additionally, the poor do obviously suffer at the rich's hands, though perhaps they don't see it this way: bank overdraft charges, paychecks on prepaid cards, more scrutiny and arrests for trivial offenses from law enforcement, increasing rents, outrageously expensive and ineffective health insurance, etc.

Anyways, just to put this topic directly to bed, the wealth gap is actually bad, and the lack of empathy that the rich have for the poor is a historical fact rather than an issue itself. The IMF is against wealth inequality and has detailed how and why in depth: https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/sdn/2015/sdn1513.pdf and to be blunt, they know better than any of us here. The bottom line is that, as the report says, "Societies with greater income inequality experience slower and less stable economic growth." Even the capitalists have to get on board with solving the problem of inequality when it's framed that way.

Re: Is it the Wealth Gap that's bad or the Empathy Gap that comes with it?

#26

This guy put into much better words what I've been thinking for a while. It doesn't matter to me at all that Bill Gates has more money than God, because he's empathetic to people who aren't as rich and aren't as great as he is, and wants to continue to use his strength to lift people up instead of feathering his own nest even more. It's when people get the idea that "I'm better, so I deserve better than Them!" that r…

"It doesn't matter to me at all that Bill Gates has more money than God,"

It should because traditionally rich people have done bad things to people who weren't rich. Having lots of money = concentration of power. Giving that much power to individual is dangerous. That is why people who believe in massive inequality are stupid, they are for unimaginable concentrations of private power with no accountability what so ever.

Re: Is it the Wealth Gap that's bad or the Empathy Gap that comes with it?

#27

If the poor end of the wealth gap are still better off than 90% of the rest of the world, why does the wealth gap matter? That was my thinking for quite a while. However, the one thing that happens here in the US is that the wealthy have more representation and power in the legal system. Be it federal or local, the systems tend to get slanted against the not-wealthy because the wealthy take over the communications ch…

Exactly. Wealth isn't a zero-sum game, but power/influence is.

Relative wealth is zero-sum, and relative wealth disparity can and does negatively affect you.

Let's stay your wealth/income remains static, but most people around you see a great increase in their own wealth/income. You are certainly less better off now because all this extra wealth in your area will increase demand for goods and thus prices. See Bay Area housing market for an example.

Re: Is it the Wealth Gap that's bad or the Empathy Gap that comes with it?

#29
post #6

This guy put into much better words what I've been thinking for a while. It doesn't matter to me at all that Bill Gates has more money than God, because he's empathetic to people who aren't as rich and aren't as great as he is, and wants to continue to use his strength to lift people up instead of feathering his own nest even more. It's when people get the idea that "I'm better, so I deserve better than Them!" that r…

Can you give some examples of the "Really Bad Things" you are thinking of?

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