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Is serotonin the happy brain chemical?

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Re: Is serotonin the happy brain chemical?

#21

Post by bluedevil2k »

SSRI's in my opinion are not the future of antidepressants. They work by indiscriminately increasing serotonin levels in the synapse, thereby activating every single serotonin receptor (5-HT). While you get the anti-depressant effect by increasing the activation at the 5-HT1 receptor, you also get the negative side effects of SSRI's since it activates 5-HT2c receptor (weight gain), 5-HT3 receptor (nausea), and sleep issues.

The future of the antidepressants lies in chemicals that increase serotonin at the 5-HT1 receptor (lowering depression) without affecting the other receptors. Drugs like mirtazipine and nefazodone attempt to do this by blocking certain 5-HT receptors (mainly the 5-HT2a receptor, which lowers anxiety), and as a result make serotonin levels higher and more available at the 5-HT1 receptor. That's the reason these 2 drugs in particular don't have the nasty side-effects of SSRI's.

The future of anti-depressants likely lies in the ability to find a drug that increases activation at the 5-HT1 receptors in certain parts of the brain, while leaving the rest of the brain and receptors untouched.

Re: Is serotonin the happy brain chemical?

#22

Post by dustingetz »

digi_owl wrote: post #19
gghh wrote: post #6

The article presents a possible explaination for why SSRI antidepressants (which increase the amount of serotonine in one's synapsis) are effective: serotonine plays a role in how we learn, and > [people with an] atypical function of the serotonin system may be at risk of developing depression or anxiety because they are too good at learning about negative outcomes > Serotonin changes produced by the drug, combined w…

Sorry but i have to get this off my chest. This fits me so well. I wonder how many nights i have simply wished i could think less. That is, stop twisting old events hoping to grab some new insights, or ruminate about whats to come given X Y and Z.

Maybe you might view that as strength, something about your brain chemistry that lets you achieve deeper insight than your peers, and makes you a better innovator? I say this as someone like you, who replays events in the past or future, over and over to gain deep insights (or maybe confirmation biases), and i also wonder if it is related to my seratonin-dopamine imbalances (i have adhd), as it is very clear that my obsession with understanding the why behind the world is not normal and i wish i could just let it be

Re: Is serotonin the happy brain chemical?

#23

Post by joesmo »

This is the first honest article I've read on the subject of serotonin and neurotransmitters in years. It basically concludes what very few people seem to be aware of: that we do not know what causes depression or anxiety nor do we know how SSRIs, SSNRIs, or other similar chemicals work. There are, at best, hypothesis, generally untestable. The idea of chemical "imbalances" in the brain is, as it has been since its inception, complete and utter bullshit. The reality is current medical science simply doesn't know, the marketers make the rest up, and for some reason, most doctors play along. That's how you get to the popular and completely wrong idea that serotonin is the "happy" brain chemical. (Of course, if you're aware of the lack of capability in most people to process complex ideas, you could easily guess that such a simplistic idea has to be wrong simply from the number of people who talk about it like it's real.)

Re: Is serotonin the happy brain chemical?

#24

Post by ordbajsare »

bluedevil2k wrote: post #21

SSRI's in my opinion are not the future of antidepressants. They work by indiscriminately increasing serotonin levels in the synapse, thereby activating every single serotonin receptor (5-HT). While you get the anti-depressant effect by increasing the activation at the 5-HT1 receptor, you also get the negative side effects of SSRI's since it activates 5-HT2c receptor (weight gain), 5-HT3 receptor (nausea), and sleep…

The future of SSRI is the garbage! They are shooting blind!

Talk therapy FTW!

Re: Is serotonin the happy brain chemical?

#25

Post by markeroon »

digi_owl wrote: post #19
gghh wrote: post #6

The article presents a possible explaination for why SSRI antidepressants (which increase the amount of serotonine in one's synapsis) are effective: serotonine plays a role in how we learn, and > [people with an] atypical function of the serotonin system may be at risk of developing depression or anxiety because they are too good at learning about negative outcomes > Serotonin changes produced by the drug, combined w…

Sorry but i have to get this off my chest. This fits me so well. I wonder how many nights i have simply wished i could think less. That is, stop twisting old events hoping to grab some new insights, or ruminate about whats to come given X Y and Z.

Meditate. It won't fix everything but it helps.

Re: Is serotonin the happy brain chemical?

#26

Post by Raphmedia »

After feeling very down, so much that I didn't felt like myself, I started to experiment with herbal supplements. Valerian to sleep, but my problem wasn't lack of sleep. St John's Wort for mood, but I didn't feel moody.

I tried 5-htp, which from my understanding is a precursor to the biosynthesis of Serotonin. The effect was immediate. I felt light headed, buzzed even. I felt as if I had suddenly woken up in a bright new world. I went groceries shopping could barely keep myself from gaping at all the colours, products and people. The next day, those effects were gone but I felt fine. Simply fine. I tried to take more 5-htp, but those strong effects are gone. I am no brain scientist, but to me this is anecdotal evidence that I was very much lacking in Serotonin and that this herbal supplement boosted me right back up.

It's not magical, I still feel anxious about deadlines and stressed about hard to deal with clients. However, some kind of dark blurry veil has been lifted from my perception of life.

Edit: Since then, I increased my weekly physical activities and improved my overall eating habits. I can't say if it's directly linked with my increase (or rather closer to normal) Serotonin but my instinct says yes.

Re: Is serotonin the happy brain chemical?

#27

Post by PaulHoule »

I'm not sure that SSRI's make me happy, but I have never believed the "chemical imbalance" story about them.

I have always been kindof anxious, maybe with a touch of GAD or even social anxiety, and I when I knew the rug was about to get pulled out from under me, I started taking an SSRI to increase my resilience.

Under the SSRI I am definitely much less anxious, perhaps even to a fault -- the big benefit I see it that I don't get upset about little things, like I don't get upset about being stuck in traffic.

Re: Is serotonin the happy brain chemical?

#28

Post by pif »

By the way, triptans (drugs that increase serotonin level) can be very effective in fighting against migraines. Switching from a splitting head-ache to nothing in 20 minutes, when instead classic analgesics would do nothing, is a step towards happiness.

Edit: SSRI -> triptans

Re: Is serotonin the happy brain chemical?

#29

Post by CoryG89 »

johnw11 wrote: post #15
Snackchez wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your statement should have an "or" instead of an "and". Ex: MDMA does not have high dependence but does require an increased dosage due to plateaus

Also, isn't MDMA highly toxic if used frequently? Drug forums seem to recommend the use of MDMA no more often than once every two weeks.

MDMA does not form a physical dependence. In fact, if you keep taking it, it will stop working altogether eventually, regardless of an increased dose.

There have been many bullshit studies with predetermined agendas and bad methodologies which have claimed that MDMA is neurotoxic. Whenever more responsible, un-biased studies are done, they usually show it is actually less "toxic" than alcohol.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/horizon/broadband...

Re: Is serotonin the happy brain chemical?

#30

Post by mattlutze »

empath75 wrote: post #13
johnw11 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, while I don't personally have experience with a lot of illegal drugs, if you ask anyone who does he will tell you that there are drugs that nearly instantly make you happy without having to wait weeks for the drugs to have a subtle effect on your thought processes. These illegal drugs may or may not be too dangerous to use regularly to treat depression, but it's worth noting the fact that it's clearly not "impo…

Yeah I've been wondering about that. How the hell does mdma work if it's not serotonin. I always understood that the euphoria was caused by a flood of serotonin in your brain.

So, with its grain of salt, the Wikipedia article on MDMA begins the discussion with this statement:

> MDMA acts primarily as a presynaptic releasing agent of serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine, which arises from its activity at trace amine-associated receptor 1 (TAAR1) and vesicular monoamine transporter 2 (VMAT2).

It goes on to state that MDMA acts as an inhibitor of VMAT2, which correlates to an increase of the neurotransmitters in the space near that receptor's neuron.

I think this means that it does operate on the brain by encouraging the release of more serotonin, norepinephrine and dopamine.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA#Pharmacodynamics

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