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Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

nytimes.com

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Re: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

#21

Post by untog »

davidw wrote: post #15
untog wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually in favour of expanding immigration, but describing opposition to it as xenophobia is extremely unfair. The logic is really very simple: those artificial barriers are also the borders between economies, social benefit systems, etc. etc. Every person within those borders that does not have a job puts a drain on the rest of the country. Someone without a job outside of those borders does not. So bringing so…

> So bringing someone across those borders while an unemployed person is within them is a net economic negative. You're right - that's a vast oversimplification. Here's one of my own: at the same time Linus Torvalds moved to the US, there were a number of unemployed people. I still think it was a net win to let him in, though. Be very wary of the lump of labor fallacy, it's what's behind the "they took rrrr jawbs" me…

At the same time, expanding immigration because Linus Torvalds exists is also a vast oversimplification. Even most anti-immigration people I've spoken to concede that there should be avenues for outstandingly talented people to emigrate if they wish.

Re: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

#23

Post by diogenescynic »

davidw wrote: post #6

The real fix to this is to make sure that people brought over with an H1-B can easily change jobs. That way they're not beholden to some low-wage job, and companies that bring people in merely for low wages will face high rates of churn.

In my opinion, the real fix is to make the H-1B 'lottery' into an auction. Instead of accepting 65,000 H-1Bs at random--accept the 65,000 H-1Bs with the highest wages. That way we are getting the immigrants with the highest valued skills and stopping companies like Cognizant and Infosys that game the immigration system by applying for the cheapest H-1Bs possible.

Re: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

#24

Post by Legogris »

untog wrote: post #10
DINKDINK wrote: post #3

Can anyone elucidate why having artificial barriers to employing certain types of people is beneficial? If so, why not create the same restrictions on, say, a company in California from hiring someone from New York? Or is this a guise for xenophobia?

I'm actually in favour of expanding immigration, but describing opposition to it as xenophobia is extremely unfair. The logic is really very simple: those artificial barriers are also the borders between economies, social benefit systems, etc. etc. Every person within those borders that does not have a job puts a drain on the rest of the country. Someone without a job outside of those borders does not. So bringing so…

This seems more like an argument in favor of employing these people, not having artificial barriers to employment.

Re: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

#25

Post by hatred »

diogenescynic wrote: post #13
DINKDINK wrote: post #3

Can anyone elucidate why having artificial barriers to employing certain types of people is beneficial? If so, why not create the same restrictions on, say, a company in California from hiring someone from New York? Or is this a guise for xenophobia?

>artificial barriers Like citizenship? Do you consider citizenship an artificial barrier? As someone who has worked at tech companies and various law firms in the Silicon Valley, I've seen this story played out several times. Hire Cognizant, TCS, Infosys, Symphony, or some other outsourcing firm and then bring in H-1Bs for an entire department. All it does is drive down wages for everyone and hurt everyone except for…

> All it does is drive down wages for everyone and hurt everyone except for the 1% at the top

Can you elaborate a bit more on this? Doesn't the initial LCA application with the Dept. of Labor requires you to submit wage details that conclusively prove that the offered wages are as per market norms.

Re: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

#27

Post by davidw »

diogenescynic wrote: post #23
davidw wrote: post #6

The real fix to this is to make sure that people brought over with an H1-B can easily change jobs. That way they're not beholden to some low-wage job, and companies that bring people in merely for low wages will face high rates of churn.

In my opinion, the real fix is to make the H-1B 'lottery' into an auction. Instead of accepting 65,000 H-1Bs at random--accept the 65,000 H-1Bs with the highest wages. That way we are getting the immigrants with the highest valued skills and stopping companies like Cognizant and Infosys that game the immigration system by applying for the cheapest H-1Bs possible.

What is special about the number 65,000?

Absolutely nothing. It's central planning for something that doesn't require it: http://johnhcochrane.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-optimal-number...

Re: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

#28

Post by jmspring »

DINKDINK wrote: post #3

Can anyone elucidate why having artificial barriers to employing certain types of people is beneficial? If so, why not create the same restrictions on, say, a company in California from hiring someone from New York? Or is this a guise for xenophobia?

If a company wants to cut labor costs and move, open the new facility and train the people in the new location. Do not bring them in on a visa meant for skilled labor, make someone train their replacement and then fire them.

Personally, I would like to see the H1-B system go away/become unavailable to large body shops and consulting firms. All they are doing is the scenario outlined above.

Some companies are good, some, like IBM which are attempting to cater to the daily whims of Wall Street, not so much.

Re: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

#29

Post by electricblue »

DINKDINK wrote: post #3

Can anyone elucidate why having artificial barriers to employing certain types of people is beneficial? If so, why not create the same restrictions on, say, a company in California from hiring someone from New York? Or is this a guise for xenophobia?

It's generally better for your whole country if your citizens are employed doing high wage, productive labor rather than having their jobs poached by foreigners who get paid very little send much of their wealth back to their home country. This in practice benefits a very small minority of very wealthy people and doesn't do much for your overall country. It is also better on a state level as well, to (for example) keep Apple in California rather than have them and their jobs leave for Texas, as well as the highly educated citizens you have leaving California for jobs in Texas.

Re: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers with Immigrants

#30

Post by crapolasplatter »

Wait A second something doesn't make sense here.

I thought the main reason for H1-B visas was because there aren't enough American workers?

So why would they get rid of American workers they already had ,that have been doing the job?

Surely it couldn't be because they lower pay of the H1-B workers?

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