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The Villain of CRISPR

michaeleisen.org

21–30 of 106 posts

Re: The Villain of CRISPR

#21

Can someone share a tl;dr version of this?

Egos are colliding over attribution. Go figure!

There’s a patent issue too, but it’s difficult to evaluate since the issue is between a non-profit (The Broad Institute of MIT and Harvard) and a public institution (University of California, Berkley) and most people acknowledge that either would be better for progress than any commercial entity.

Re: The Villain of CRISPR

#22

This is part of an ongoing dispute between Jinek et al at Berkeley and Zhang et al at the Broad Institute. Both groups did important work on CRISPR-CAS9, and now they're fighting over credit, a patent, and (probably) a Nobel prize. Eric Lander, head of the Broad Institute, recently published an article "The Heroes of CRISPR" which emphasizes his own institution's role and downplays Berkeley's. Michael Eisen, a profes…

While there’s a patent issue, this is an issue of attribution (i.e. ego). I know most would prefer either a non-profit (The Broad Institute of MIT and Harvard) or a public institution (University of California, Berkley) than some commercial entity.

Re: The Villain of CRISPR

#23

As time goes on, I'm understanding more and more that academic science, which I had naively imagined to be a pure endeavor prosecuted by good-hearted individuals on humanity's behalf, is in fact as dominated by powerful, acquisitive individuals who are more interested in advancing their own power than in human good, knowledge, etc. The pursuit of IP is taking over the university, much to its detriment.

Science has always been a human endeavor. The politics around mid-20th century physics is a similar minefield.

However, it's far more pure, than, say, typical SV venture capital.

Lander is widely known for being both a scientific and political heavyweight. He knows how to gain power, knows how to wield it, and uses it both to serve scientific goals and his own.

Such use of power has pushed forward science to some degree by allowing considerable economic resources to be applied in a focused manner. But it gets used for other purposes too, because Lander is still a human, and still makes mistakes.

Re: The Villain of CRISPR

#24

A Nobel Prize is now at stake. Lifespan, disease and the human race is at stake. The internal scientific politicking on both sides is classic. "by going into depth about the contributions of early CRISPR pioneers, Lander is able to almost literally write Doudna and Charpentier (and, for that matter, genome-editing pioneer George Church, whose CRISPR work has also been largely ignored) out of this history. They are me…

A lot of breakthroughs in science have a similar fate. One example was finding that DNA was a double helix with Watson, Crick, and Rosalind Franklin. Watson and Crick got all the credit but Franklin definitely played a major role in that discovery and was mostly written out.

Re: The Villain of CRISPR

#25

This is part of an ongoing dispute between Jinek et al at Berkeley and Zhang et al at the Broad Institute. Both groups did important work on CRISPR-CAS9, and now they're fighting over credit, a patent, and (probably) a Nobel prize. Eric Lander, head of the Broad Institute, recently published an article "The Heroes of CRISPR" which emphasizes his own institution's role and downplays Berkeley's. Michael Eisen, a profes…

While there’s a patent issue, this is an issue of attribution (i.e. ego). I know most would prefer either a non-profit (The Broad Institute of MIT and Harvard) or a public institution (University of California, Berkley) than some commercial entity.

The Broad Institute has given an exclusive license to a commercial entity (Editas Medicine) for certain uses of CRISPR. I don't imagine UC would behave any differently.

Re: The Villain of CRISPR

#26

As time goes on, I'm understanding more and more that academic science, which I had naively imagined to be a pure endeavor prosecuted by good-hearted individuals on humanity's behalf, is in fact as dominated by powerful, acquisitive individuals who are more interested in advancing their own power than in human good, knowledge, etc. The pursuit of IP is taking over the university, much to its detriment.

IP is just another form of applause, and with it or without it wouldn't matter or change the behavior. People who want the prestige will rise to the occasion and treat the world as a zero sum game.

With "intellectual property" (patents in this case) it is a zero sum game.

Re: The Villain of CRISPR

#27
post #13

A Nobel Prize is now at stake. Lifespan, disease and the human race is at stake. The internal scientific politicking on both sides is classic. "by going into depth about the contributions of early CRISPR pioneers, Lander is able to almost literally write Doudna and Charpentier (and, for that matter, genome-editing pioneer George Church, whose CRISPR work has also been largely ignored) out of this history. They are me…

From what I broadly understand from CRISPR, the Nobel is almost a footnote in history, the real prize seems to be the patent.

I don't expect that the present and future judges presiding over the patent dispute will give any credence to these pieces. Nobel committee members might.

Re: The Villain of CRISPR

#28
post #20

I hate the fact that breakthroughs like this are patentable. People need to follow Alexander Flemings lead: The pharmacist Sir Alexander Fleming is revered not just because of his discovery of penicillin – the antibiotic that has saved millions of lives – but also due to his efforts to ensure that it was freely available to as much of the world’s population as possible. Fleming could have become a hugely wealthy man…

Jonah Salk, the guy who developed the polio vaccine

"When asked who owned the patent to it, Salk said, 'There is no patent. Could you patent the sun?'"

Re: The Villain of CRISPR

#29

Can someone share a tl;dr version of this?

Lander wrote an article in "Cell" about the history as he saw it of the invention of the Crispr technique. It covered the bases but was flawed, but it did include a lot of scientists that weren't included before. The article basically tries to discredit it. It wasn't a great argument and frankly the authors not a impartial (Friends with one of the scientist, and works at one of the universities) I'm surprised it made it this far on Hacker News.

There is a patent dispute about who owns the patent on this technique. Lots of money is potentially at stake. This article was written from one of the parties (Broad institute and UC Berkely) being one of them. Oddly the Lander article supports the notion that this invention is evolution not revolutionary.

Broad has been working to move from from CRISPR/CAS9 to CRISPR/Something else better). The UC Berkley seems to have come up with it first, but is it obvious or obvious to use in editing is the question. The UC [2]team has pulled all there patent claims and resubmitted them twice, presumably to broaden the scope and cover any use. Add some east coast/west coast rivalry and some other biases and you have a powder keg of science.

Anyway lots of blame to go around.

siyer posted this in a previous article which puts the patent dispute in context and if the patent is only cas9:

[1]http://www.ipscell.com/2016/01/patent-expert-weighs-in-on-cr...

and the strange patent application by UC and :

[2]https://law.stanford.edu/2015/12/29/the-crispr-patent-interf...

Re: The Villain of CRISPR

#30

As time goes on, I'm understanding more and more that academic science, which I had naively imagined to be a pure endeavor prosecuted by good-hearted individuals on humanity's behalf, is in fact as dominated by powerful, acquisitive individuals who are more interested in advancing their own power than in human good, knowledge, etc. The pursuit of IP is taking over the university, much to its detriment.

Of the many examples of science getting nasty in the past, one could hardly do better than to revisit the "invention" of calculus. One which raged for at least two decades, and involved names now rightfully known to nearly the entire human race[1]. Then there's the still unresolved mess of who discovered the structure of DNA and the question of whether the Nobel prize partly went to someone who 'stole' the data 'over the shoulder' of someone who should have received far more credit[2]. So over its long history I think we've been very consistent in our discreditable behavior of granting scientific credit; and notice that the business notions of IP are a very recent addition to this struggle. When the treasure is seen as vast, and there's clearly enough for all, that's exactly when sharing is likely to be at a nadir; such is lamentable human nature -sigh-

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leibniz%E2%80%93Newton_calculu...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosalind_Franklin#Contribution...

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