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The Electric Car may be entering its “cell phone” period

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Re: The Electric Car may be entering its “cell phone” period

#21

Post by ghaff »

glossyscr wrote: post #4

As the long as the charging is not way faster I do not see mass adoption. If you're using cars just in the city then charging is no issue but for long distance travel it is one. Only way is to own at least two cars but this can't be the solution.

Essentially a pure EV auto, while it has lots of positive points, is an auto that can't do everything that a current ICE auto can. There are ways to mitigate that. If an individual or family has multiple vehicles, maybe their usage is such that they're OK with one of those vehicles having a potential range limit. Maybe longer distance needs are sufficiently rare that renting a car for those times isn't unreasonable. An EV probably isn't right for you if you can't charge it at home.

None of that means that there isn't a market for pure EVs. But each limitation makes it less suitable as a truly mass-market vehicle and makes it more likely IMO that various types of hybrid designs will be more popular in the mainstream.

Re: The Electric Car may be entering its “cell phone” period

#22

Post by benten10 »

Here's a question I've always wanted to ask someone about electric cars: Why don't the companies make cars with detachable batteries, and basically do a battery 'swap' in the charging stations, so that the charging time becomes very little, if people want to?

Re: The Electric Car may be entering its “cell phone” period

#23

Post by xutopia »

glossyscr wrote: post #4

As the long as the charging is not way faster I do not see mass adoption. If you're using cars just in the city then charging is no issue but for long distance travel it is one. Only way is to own at least two cars but this can't be the solution.

This argument again...

The average commute time in 2011 was 25.5 minutes in USA and 24.5 in Canada. In Canada 17.2% of commuters drove more than 45 minutes to get to work. Source: https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/nhs-enm/2011/as-sa/99-012-x/99-0...

At least for 82.8% of people the commute as well as grocery stop can be handled with a single charge. For many their whole day of driving can be done with a single charge!

Now consider that for the people for who the daily errands are within the sweet spot they never have to waste time to stop anywhere to charge! Their charging station is at home.

Re: The Electric Car may be entering its “cell phone” period

#25

Post by RegW »

vlehto wrote: post #8

Good electric car battery standard would solve almost all of the problems of electric cars. 1. The battery is where most development happens and where it's most needed. So you don't have to worry about your car getting too old too fast. Just get fresh battery. 2. Range: just swap the battery if you run out of juice. They could be rented like gas bottles are at service station. 3. Battery charge lifespan. 4. Potential…

Gogoro in Taiwan are going the battery swap route with their scooters: http://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/gogoro-scooters/

Re: The Electric Car may be entering its “cell phone” period

#26

Post by komodo »

eloisant wrote: post #20
jstanley wrote: post #6

> There is a $7500 federal tax rebate on a new electric car, so the moment you drive it off the lot, its blue book value drops an additional $7500. But isn't that fine because you got the $7500 anyway?

Maybe, but when you buy your car it's important to realize that these $7,500 are not just free money, they have a direct impact on your car resell value. So if you buy a leaf that starts at $30,000, get rebates to $20,000, you must remember that since anyone can get it new for $20,000 that's the actual "new" value to take before you apply depreciation. In other words you're not really buying a $30k car for $20k, you'…

So it follows that right before the rebate ends is the best time to buy?

Re: The Electric Car may be entering its “cell phone” period

#27

Post by sakri »

grej wrote: post #11
vlehto wrote: post #8

Good electric car battery standard would solve almost all of the problems of electric cars. 1. The battery is where most development happens and where it's most needed. So you don't have to worry about your car getting too old too fast. Just get fresh battery. 2. Range: just swap the battery if you run out of juice. They could be rented like gas bottles are at service station. 3. Battery charge lifespan. 4. Potential…

The idea makes sense. There was an Israeli startup that was trying to do this exact thing that didn't make it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Place

Gogoro in Korea is trying to do this with mopeds (or scooters). There was a lot of hype a year ago, haven't heard much since http://www.theverge.com/2015/1/5/7484171/gogoro-smartscooter...

That sounded like a winner to me.

Re: The Electric Car may be entering its “cell phone” period

#28

Post by beisner »

JohnDoe365 wrote: post #24

Current oil prices make electronic cars a total personal economic loss.

Perhaps at face value, and only at this exact moment in time. It would be interesting to see examine both the hidden and extrinsic costs of both sorts of vehicles. I believe that maintenance/performance of electric cars ends up being less in lifetime costs than combustion - that's a relatively well-studied area, and narrows the amortized gap between electric and combustion. What hasn't been studied much, and may be interesting to examine, are the extrinsic costs of both types of cars. Take health expenses for instance - does owning a combustion vehicle have an effect on an owner's health, vs electric ownership? Would this effect be reflected in higher healthcare costs later on? At the macro level, if emissions were reduced dramatically by mass replacement by electric vehicles, would aggregate healthcare costs decrease as well?

Re: The Electric Car may be entering its “cell phone” period

#29

Post by stonemetal »

xutopia wrote: post #23
glossyscr wrote: post #4

As the long as the charging is not way faster I do not see mass adoption. If you're using cars just in the city then charging is no issue but for long distance travel it is one. Only way is to own at least two cars but this can't be the solution.

This argument again... The average commute time in 2011 was 25.5 minutes in USA and 24.5 in Canada. In Canada 17.2% of commuters drove more than 45 minutes to get to work. Source: https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/nhs-enm/2011/as-sa/99-012-x/99-0... At least for 82.8% of people the commute as well as grocery stop can be handled with a single charge. For many their whole day of driving can be done with a single charge! Now…

Nothing you said contradicts what he said. Yes, commuting can be handled by an EV, but the three holidays a year when you drive 300 miles to your inlaws means you need a second car, a rental or some other way of handling that.

Re: The Electric Car may be entering its “cell phone” period

#30

Post by coldpie »

mhandley wrote: post #19
lectrick wrote: post #2

1) The Tesla just surpassed the Leaf as the most popular electric car (yes, even with the price difference). 2) Electric car perks are everywhere and rarely mentioned. Free charging, way better parking, fielding questions from curious onlookers, more cargo space, no noise, no warmup, no oil changes, etc.) 3) In the winter months in areas of the world with real seasons (read: not San Francisco area), cabin heating wil…

Why don't electric cars come with a tiny kerosene cabin heater as standard? A small heater would take up little space or weight, could be easily refueled at home so not need a detour to a petrol station, and be much more cost effective than adding extra batteries just to provide cabin heat. Sure, it's not zero-emission, but the efficiency of a kerosene heater can be pretty good (much better than an internal combustio…

No one would be silly enough to cart around a tank of highly explosive liquid in their vehicle.
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