The NICAM Codec replacement project • Hacker News Board

Re: The NICAM Codec replacement project

#21

Post by pbhjpbhj » Wed, Jan 20, 2016, 2:37 PM UTC

Piskvorrr wrote: post #12

comboy wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed to allow electricity suppliers to switch large numbers of electricity meters between different tariffs by broadcasting an embedded signal in broadcast radio signals I kind of heavily doubt these are signed broadcasts that cannot be replayed..

Something akin to this? http://gpsworld.com/wirelessinfrastructuregoing-against-time... I believe that operating a rogue transmitter in a licensed band would get you located rather quickly - even though the tech itself may not necessarily be secure, there are other enforcement mechanisms.

Surely you only need the rogue transmitter to be stronger at the receiver (your electric meter?) than the signal from the transmitter. That doesn't seem like a strong enough signal to easily locate you?

Seems a complicated way to do something - doesn't Economy7 operate between fixed times overnight?

I wonder if they can cut power using the transmissions - seems like something that could be used for emergency control of demand in times when the National Grid has problems.

Re: The NICAM Codec replacement project

#22

Post by pbhjpbhj » Wed, Jan 20, 2016, 2:39 PM UTC

acheron wrote: post #17

Really interesting article, but terrible clickbaity title. I wouldn't have read it if there weren't so many positive comments on HN already. It could work if there were a subtitle. "35 million people didn’t notice a thing: BBC Radio's NICAM Codec replacement project". I dunno. But it is (or should be) very important that the title actually informs you as to what the article is about. "35M people didn't notice a thing…

The BBC seem to have moved to this sort of title with the recent updates to their web properties. They do these things seemingly confusing themselves with a commercial enterprise rather than a publicly funded provider.

Re: The NICAM Codec replacement project

#23

Post by leoedin » Wed, Jan 20, 2016, 2:40 PM UTC

Piskvorrr wrote: post #12

comboy wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed to allow electricity suppliers to switch large numbers of electricity meters between different tariffs by broadcasting an embedded signal in broadcast radio signals I kind of heavily doubt these are signed broadcasts that cannot be replayed..

Something akin to this? http://gpsworld.com/wirelessinfrastructuregoing-against-time... I believe that operating a rogue transmitter in a licensed band would get you located rather quickly - even though the tech itself may not necessarily be secure, there are other enforcement mechanisms.

It depends how strong it is.

The obvious benefit for a malicious person would be to set their meter to the cheaper tariff by replaying the signal.

It wouldn't need to be a powerful signal - if you were broadcasting right next to the meter even a few milliwatts would be enough. Build a faraday cage around the meter to be sure! Just remember to dismantle it before the meter reader comes round.

Re: The NICAM Codec replacement project

#24

Post by mydpy » Wed, Jan 20, 2016, 2:40 PM UTC

acheron wrote: post #17

Really interesting article, but terrible clickbaity title. I wouldn't have read it if there weren't so many positive comments on HN already. It could work if there were a subtitle. "35 million people didn’t notice a thing: BBC Radio's NICAM Codec replacement project". I dunno. But it is (or should be) very important that the title actually informs you as to what the article is about. "35M people didn't notice a thing…

The name of the url is even click-baity: http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/blog/2016-01-35-million-people-didnt...

Re: The NICAM Codec replacement project

#25

Post by mydpy » Wed, Jan 20, 2016, 2:41 PM UTC

mydpy wrote: post #24

acheron wrote: post #17

Really interesting article, but terrible clickbaity title. I wouldn't have read it if there weren't so many positive comments on HN already. It could work if there were a subtitle. "35 million people didn’t notice a thing: BBC Radio's NICAM Codec replacement project". I dunno. But it is (or should be) very important that the title actually informs you as to what the article is about. "35M people didn't notice a thing…

The name of the url is even click-baity: http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/blog/2016-01-35-million-people-didnt...

Sorry this should be: http:// www.bbc.co.uk/rd/blog/2016-01-35-million-people-didnt-notice-a-thing-dot-dot-dot

Re: The NICAM Codec replacement project

#26

Post by jerf » Wed, Jan 20, 2016, 2:42 PM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #22

acheron wrote: post #17

Really interesting article, but terrible clickbaity title. I wouldn't have read it if there weren't so many positive comments on HN already. It could work if there were a subtitle. "35 million people didn’t notice a thing: BBC Radio's NICAM Codec replacement project". I dunno. But it is (or should be) very important that the title actually informs you as to what the article is about. "35M people didn't notice a thing…

The BBC seem to have moved to this sort of title with the recent updates to their web properties. They do these things seemingly confusing themselves with a commercial enterprise rather than a publicly funded provider.

Being government funded does not mean you don't have to sell yourself. It just means the target audience for the sales job is different.

Re: The NICAM Codec replacement project

#27

Post by mseebach » Wed, Jan 20, 2016, 2:43 PM UTC

ihsw wrote: post #20

Honest question -- why are they using PATA ribbon cables in the new NICAM codec box? Surely SATA would be more reliable and easier to administer.

They most likely aren't ATA cables, as in, they aren't used to connect hard drives -- so it's not obvious that whatever purpose they serve could be served by a serial alternative.

If you look at the photo of the back of the unit, you see a lot of very wide D-Sub sockets that these ribbon cables seem to connect to, so the unit is meant to connect to a bunch of other things. Actually, the need for these sockets seem to account for most of the size of the unit, the box appears pretty empty.

Re: The NICAM Codec replacement project

#28

Post by joezydeco » Wed, Jan 20, 2016, 2:44 PM UTC

ihsw wrote: post #20

Honest question -- why are they using PATA ribbon cables in the new NICAM codec box? Surely SATA would be more reliable and easier to administer.

Those look like custom digital connectors moving data to and from the codec boxes. They're not connecting hard drives here.

If you had to connect 40 low-speed signal pins from one board to another, you'd do it as simply and cheaply as possible. Serializing them doesn't gain you much of anything, other than complexity.

Re: The NICAM Codec replacement project

#29

Post by jmtd » Wed, Jan 20, 2016, 2:44 PM UTC

acheron wrote: post #17

Really interesting article, but terrible clickbaity title. I wouldn't have read it if there weren't so many positive comments on HN already. It could work if there were a subtitle. "35 million people didn’t notice a thing: BBC Radio's NICAM Codec replacement project". I dunno. But it is (or should be) very important that the title actually informs you as to what the article is about. "35M people didn't notice a thing…

Perhaps the title-writer has been infected by the BBC news editorial policy. They seem to be turning clickbait titles into a fine art, combined with renaming articles so you think it's a new piece on the same story, but turns out you've already read it. (If you read BBC News at all that is: my wife still does, I gave it up years ago and haven't looked back.)

I love many aspects of the BBC but sadly not their news output anymore.

(Sorry I realise this has very little to do with the R&D article.)

Re: The NICAM Codec replacement project

#30

Post by jauer » Wed, Jan 20, 2016, 2:45 PM UTC

ihsw wrote: post #20

Honest question -- why are they using PATA ribbon cables in the new NICAM codec box? Surely SATA would be more reliable and easier to administer.

They aren't using PATA or SATA. They are using ribbon cables to connect boards to each other and to backplate connectors.

Some of those ribbon cables could be carrying serial signaling on some lines but to get it all on one smaller cable with fewer signaling lines like SATA you'd need to mux/demux the data on each end which would add expensive chips to save money on cheap cables.