Reading the post and this thread makes me feel very lucky. I didn't attend either a bootcamp or college, simply got to know people who coded a lot and did lots and lots of tutorials and made a few demos to get in as an intern (on the recommendation from one of those people). I'm now a pretty senior developer at a startup. I'm not sure how to recommend people get into the industry - nobody seems able to or willing to take the time to hire greenhorns anymore unless they come with a degree.
The Joys and Challenges of Hiring Developer Bootcamp Grads
21–28 of 28 posts
Re: The Joys and Challenges of Hiring Developer Bootcamp Grads
#22On one hand I am glad that graduates are getting education and opportunities without subjecting themselves to mainstream educational institutions. On the other hand, it does concern me that this is one step closer in the race to the bottom for developers. It won't be long before being a developer is just another poorly paying job.
That kind of attitude can only mean one thing: you doubt your own skills and the usefulness of what you do.
Far from it. I am a decade in to my career and will likely not be impacted by these trends. I am more concerned with the next generation of developers entering the workforce. They could be first generation of developers to be worse off than we are now (compensation, job stability, etc.)
Re: The Joys and Challenges of Hiring Developer Bootcamp Grads
#23On one hand I am glad that graduates are getting education and opportunities without subjecting themselves to mainstream educational institutions. On the other hand, it does concern me that this is one step closer in the race to the bottom for developers. It won't be long before being a developer is just another poorly paying job.
This sort of thing has happened before, with the "fog a mirror" interviews of 1999 and all the offshoring that happened a few years later. In the first case people all thought there was plenty of room in the "new economy" but our jobs would all be dumbed down permanently, in the latter there was a lot of doom and gloom about how software development was no sort of future for first-world children. But in both cases, t…
Probably not, but as you mention, for some the implications can be dire.
Re: The Joys and Challenges of Hiring Developer Bootcamp Grads
#24"Bootcamp Grads" is a pretty broad phrase; we might want to start using more precise language. An grad from an 8-week bootcamp will have a different skill set than someone who spent 18, 48, 72 weeks in a bootcamp program. Also, Thoughtbot has a somewhat good guide to running an apprenticeship: https://github.com/thoughtbot/apprenticeship It could be adapted without much work to hiring bootcamp grads.
Just counting the number of weeks is pretty misleading too. Some schools are only 9am to 4pm or even just evenings five days a week. Others, such as Hack Reactor are 11+ hours per day, six days a week.
Re: The Joys and Challenges of Hiring Developer Bootcamp Grads
#25Let's not paint this subject with a broad brush. Depends on the choice and depth of curriculum, length of time, the student and the instructor. Having said that no bootcamp or hacker school can give you 20 years of experience writing and maintaining software. That's really the disavdantage. But natural talent in rare individuals can replace that with intuition, although I'm not sure how people like that do over the l…
Comparing a bootcamp graduate to an industry veteran with 20 years dev experience is ridiculous. No one expects them to have that skillset. They're junior level developers who compare with university graduates, often very favorably.
Your mind is playing tricks on you. You are angry and are seeing things in my comment that don't really exist. I understand you maybe an old developer who is threatened by young talent but where do I compare someone with 20 years of experience to a bootcamp grad? I simply said let's not stereotype and judge a whole segment of people and that talent is not age based. Only experience is.
Re: The Joys and Challenges of Hiring Developer Bootcamp Grads
#26I have a bachelor's in CS and math and I'm currently attending a boot camp. Do you think having both would be beneficial once I graduate from the boot camp?
Actually, this seems like an ideal combination. I am mentoring a CS student (in his senior year) and honestly he won't have the skills when he graduates that will satisfy anything but an apprenticeship. The bootcamp should provide you with practical skills. My advice - keep building interesting things on your own and be prepared to present and talk about them at your interviews.
Re: The Joys and Challenges of Hiring Developer Bootcamp Grads
#27Let's not paint this subject with a broad brush. Depends on the choice and depth of curriculum, length of time, the student and the instructor. Having said that no bootcamp or hacker school can give you 20 years of experience writing and maintaining software. That's really the disavdantage. But natural talent in rare individuals can replace that with intuition, although I'm not sure how people like that do over the l…
> Having said that no bootcamp or hacker school can give you 20 years of experience writing and maintaining software. That's really the disavdantage.
I can't see how that makes it a disadvantage. The only thing that gives 20 years of experience writing and maintaining software is... well, 20 years doing just that. No one is claiming that a university, bootcamp, or hacker school can give you that.
Re: The Joys and Challenges of Hiring Developer Bootcamp Grads
#28There are zillions of factors that could make hiring a bootcamp grad a good or bad idea, from the type of bootcamp, to the type of individual, to the type of company, to even the interview process.
I did several online "bootcamps" (free code camp, Udacity, and some Udemy/Coursera courses), since I felt like no single curriculum really satisfied what I felt to be necessary.
I just like learning, so I made sure that I practiced every day.
And now I have a job working at a small start-up (4 employees including me). The last dev they hired was from Free Code Camp as well, and he's doing very well. The CEO of the company mentored him, and now the dev is mentoring me.
The interview process is something I think a lot of other companies could learn from--no brainteasers, no tricks, just coding. They asked me to open up a project I worked on during the bootcamp, describe it, then add a new feature. They stepped out while I was working so that I wouldn't be nervous about making a mistake. The CEO himself applauded my use of Google when I ran into road blocks.
It took about an hour total, and during that time, they were able to determine if I was fit for the position.
So I think the viability of hiring bootcamp grads stems from how good the interview process is--if it's terrible, you may be disappointed in your new hire.