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Why Americans Work So Much Despite Keynes's Prediction

theatlantic.com

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Re: Why Americans Work So Much Despite Keynes's Prediction

#21

Post by patio11 »

ScottBurson wrote: post #8

One answer is that the market forces tend to funnel all increases in income to landowners as rent. I was not familiar with this theory until a few days ago, when someone here on HN linked to an online version (edited and abridged) of Henry George's Progress and Poverty [0]. I've been reading it since; its clarity is stunning: I feel as if a great veil has been lifted from my eyes. Whether I'll still feel that way in…

One answer is that the market forces tend to funnel all increases in income to landowners as rent.

This is partially a result of Americans choosing to consume more housing than citizens of peer nations or, indeed, Americans historically. The size of the average owned American home doubled since 1950. You can save a substantial amount of money if you're willing to live like a 2015 Japanese salaryman or a 1950 American middle class family, but the modal American considers that standard of living "poverty" and is unwilling to accept it.

Another layer is that big houses gate access to good school districts, which is a very, very deep can of worms.

Re: Why Americans Work So Much Despite Keynes's Prediction

#22

Post by Joeri »

RogtamBar wrote: post #5
tim333 wrote: post #4

I think much of the choice of work hours must be down to human nature. We are awake about 112 hours a week and choose to work between a half (56 hours) and a quarter (28 hours) typically. People are seldom very happy unemployed. If money was the only reason people worked, the likes of Paul Graham would put their feet up when they cashed in for millions from Yahoo but they almost never do.

I really doubt that. Choose to work 40 hrs? There are a few people who are lucky enough whose work is their hobby, and who feel happy doing it, but mostly, work is draining and stressful. And I don't mean physically draining. I'm convinced the 'Fall from Eden' story was inspired by the invention of agriculture. Suddenly, people had to work a lot more (hunter-gatherers typically work 4-5 hours a day). Only the aristoc…

The evolution of light skin and ability to digest cow milk also happened due to the nutritional deficiencies of the agricultural lifestyle. Still, the benefit of being able to build a permanent home must have been strong for people to make the switch.

Re: Why Americans Work So Much Despite Keynes's Prediction

#23

Post by danieltillett »

We are hostages to our genetic and cultural heritages. Until the last 100 years (and even less in many countries) wealth = survival. To expect this drive to go away after 10,000 years of enormous selective pressure because the need for wealth has gone away is not how evolution (both culturally and genetically) works.

Re: Why Americans Work So Much Despite Keynes's Prediction

#24

Post by ScottBurson »

patio11 wrote: post #21
ScottBurson wrote: post #8

One answer is that the market forces tend to funnel all increases in income to landowners as rent. I was not familiar with this theory until a few days ago, when someone here on HN linked to an online version (edited and abridged) of Henry George's Progress and Poverty [0]. I've been reading it since; its clarity is stunning: I feel as if a great veil has been lifted from my eyes. Whether I'll still feel that way in…

One answer is that the market forces tend to funnel all increases in income to landowners as rent. This is partially a result of Americans choosing to consume more housing than citizens of peer nations or, indeed, Americans historically. The size of the average owned American home doubled since 1950. You can save a substantial amount of money if you're willing to live like a 2015 Japanese salaryman or a 1950 American…

Yes, but the effects George describes would operate even in the absence of those forces. They are inherent to urbanization itself.

Re: Why Americans Work So Much Despite Keynes's Prediction

#25

Post by talktime »

theguywith wrote: post #6
RogtamBar wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really doubt that. Choose to work 40 hrs? There are a few people who are lucky enough whose work is their hobby, and who feel happy doing it, but mostly, work is draining and stressful. And I don't mean physically draining. I'm convinced the 'Fall from Eden' story was inspired by the invention of agriculture. Suddenly, people had to work a lot more (hunter-gatherers typically work 4-5 hours a day). Only the aristoc…

That's a remarkable explanation for the myth.

I find it convincing too. Check out the 'Big History' lecture series. Particularly the lecture on the transition to agriculture. I was inclined to think that humans transitioned to agriculture as soon as it was 'invented'. But the lecture suggests that humans knew perfectly well how to farm long before, but didn't because it seemed like too much hard work. We didn't transition until forced to by climatic conditions.

Re: Why Americans Work So Much Despite Keynes's Prediction

#26

Post by timbits »

sly_foxx wrote: post #12

Can you think outside of the communist box? Competition is in part due to the fact there are more humans alive today fighting for the same resources. It's kinda similar to dating, where things are not getting easier(except for those who inherited good genes). Today with dating you have to do more to get the same result people use to get with less effort. Lack of social safety net? Why do you care about that? You don'…

I like the way you think, but it's not two things you can compare. For once, living in decent conditions (3 meals a day, a roof on top of your head, ...) ranks much higher than dating and reproducing on Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Also, the gene pool is quite diversified and most people can find a match during their lifetime. It's not common for attractive people to have multiples spouses.

Re: Why Americans Work So Much Despite Keynes's Prediction

#27

Post by marchenko »

patio11 wrote: post #21
ScottBurson wrote: post #8

One answer is that the market forces tend to funnel all increases in income to landowners as rent. I was not familiar with this theory until a few days ago, when someone here on HN linked to an online version (edited and abridged) of Henry George's Progress and Poverty [0]. I've been reading it since; its clarity is stunning: I feel as if a great veil has been lifted from my eyes. Whether I'll still feel that way in…

One answer is that the market forces tend to funnel all increases in income to landowners as rent. This is partially a result of Americans choosing to consume more housing than citizens of peer nations or, indeed, Americans historically. The size of the average owned American home doubled since 1950. You can save a substantial amount of money if you're willing to live like a 2015 Japanese salaryman or a 1950 American…

The house/ school district connection is not a small matter: it transforms housing into a positional good, and (under present conditions) a zero-sum game. In many places, it is not possible to exercise a preference for a cheaper, more modest home without also accepting a tradeoff in school quality.

Re: Why Americans Work So Much Despite Keynes's Prediction

#28

Post by jacobolus »

patio11 wrote: post #21
ScottBurson wrote: post #8

One answer is that the market forces tend to funnel all increases in income to landowners as rent. I was not familiar with this theory until a few days ago, when someone here on HN linked to an online version (edited and abridged) of Henry George's Progress and Poverty [0]. I've been reading it since; its clarity is stunning: I feel as if a great veil has been lifted from my eyes. Whether I'll still feel that way in…

One answer is that the market forces tend to funnel all increases in income to landowners as rent. This is partially a result of Americans choosing to consume more housing than citizens of peer nations or, indeed, Americans historically. The size of the average owned American home doubled since 1950. You can save a substantial amount of money if you're willing to live like a 2015 Japanese salaryman or a 1950 American…

Zoning has a lot to do with home sizes. In general American cities are zoned to not allow smaller units, even for those who might prefer the cheaper rent if given a choice. Japan has much simpler and more flexible zoning laws.

...But Japan doesn’t have the history of racially motivated urban design in general, so the story is a bit complicated.

That, and America has been heavily subsidizing an automobile-based lifestyle for 60–70 years, encouraging people to trade more living space for longer commutes, without facing the full infrastructure costs of the choice.

Re: Why Americans Work So Much Despite Keynes's Prediction

#29

Post by mhuffman »

jacobolus wrote: post #28
patio11 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One answer is that the market forces tend to funnel all increases in income to landowners as rent. This is partially a result of Americans choosing to consume more housing than citizens of peer nations or, indeed, Americans historically. The size of the average owned American home doubled since 1950. You can save a substantial amount of money if you're willing to live like a 2015 Japanese salaryman or a 1950 American…

Zoning has a lot to do with home sizes. In general American cities are zoned to not allow smaller units, even for those who might prefer the cheaper rent if given a choice. Japan has much simpler and more flexible zoning laws. ...But Japan doesn’t have the history of racially motivated urban design in general, so the story is a bit complicated. That, and America has been heavily subsidizing an automobile-based lifest…

Japan does have a quite different problem with real estate, however[1].

[1] http://freakonomics.com/2014/02/27/why-are-japanese-homes-di...

Re: Why Americans Work So Much Despite Keynes's Prediction

#30

Post by fsloth »

sly_foxx wrote: post #12

Can you think outside of the communist box? Competition is in part due to the fact there are more humans alive today fighting for the same resources. It's kinda similar to dating, where things are not getting easier(except for those who inherited good genes). Today with dating you have to do more to get the same result people use to get with less effort. Lack of social safety net? Why do you care about that? You don'…

"..there are more humans alive today fighting for the same resources"

If by "resources" you mean world GDP, then no, the GDP per person has never been higher:

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=world+gdp+%2F+world+pop...

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