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Marine Corps Shelves Futuristic Robo-Mule Due to Noise Concerns

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Re: Marine Corps Shelves Futuristic Robo-Mule Due to Noise Concerns

#21

Post by jt2190 »

Shivetya wrote: post #12
Lambdanaut wrote: post #9

These are the "Big Dog" mules being built by Boston Dynamics, who was recently acquired by Google. Google has been against militarizing the robots since acquisition, so they're no doubt happy to have this contract dropped. To be clear, this doesn't mean the project is shelved, it means the contract with the Marine Corps is shelved. Google will be able to focus more directly on civilian uses for the mules from here on…

Well this technology certainly has far more uses than the military, specifically search and rescue. Send these puppies in to hard hit areas, isolated spots, and the like, with supplies and such. The military will get their robots so we have to accept that but we can use all that research into making them do useful and humanitarian missions. No one will care if that rescue robot is noisy.

In general the amount of U.S. government spending for "search and rescue" is dwarfed by spending on the military. In that context having a military application (or the pretense of one) for this tech gives it access to the money necessary to continue research.

Re: Marine Corps Shelves Futuristic Robo-Mule Due to Noise Concerns

#23

Post by cetacea »

neiled wrote: post #20
cetacea wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> $40+mm 40 million million dollars?

http://www.accountingcoach.com/blog/what-does-m-and-mm-stand...

I think most other people use a single M to mean million, and k for thousand.

Can't we just use SI prefixes or spell the numbers out instead of using some random alternate convention?

Re: Marine Corps Shelves Futuristic Robo-Mule Due to Noise Concerns

#24

Post by ZanyProgrammer »

arethuza wrote: post #10
wehadfun wrote: post #7

why do they need this. What are they carrying? Are marines supposed to go without resupplies for weeks/months where they would need an additional robot mule to carry everything?

I found this interesting article: http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/archive/2013/march/pa... Which includes this quote: "“What we’ve seen is that when Marines come ashore, they’re carrying 130 pounds of food, water, batteries, ammo, you name it, on their backs because fundamentally, they don’t trust sea-based logistics to keep them supplied,”

Which is ironic, because since World War 2 the Marines basically function as a de facto Army, and enjoy all the benefits of American global air and sea superiority.

Really, as a former soldier myself, the ideal solution is to stop having soldiers and Marines carrying so much damn gear. Much, much easier said than done.

*By ironic I mean "silly ass Marines"

Re: Marine Corps Shelves Futuristic Robo-Mule Due to Noise Concerns

#25

Post by jt2190 »

mason240 wrote: post #13
wehadfun wrote: post #7

why do they need this. What are they carrying? Are marines supposed to go without resupplies for weeks/months where they would need an additional robot mule to carry everything?

Yes, actually this was a frequent occurrence in Afghanistan. Soldiers or Marines would be posted in small numbers in a remote COP in the mountains. Resupplying these troops would require more soldiers then were actually in the COP, and the resupply missions were often more dangerous than the mission of the COP itself (because it is easier to ambush a convoy of trucks than attacked an outpost).

  > Resupplying these troops would require more soldiers 
  > then were actually in the COP...
Yes. In general the ratio is, I think, 10 support soldiers to one combat soldier. The logistics required to keep an army in the field half way around the world is enormous.

Re: Marine Corps Shelves Futuristic Robo-Mule Due to Noise Concerns

#26

Post by melling »

homerowilson wrote: post #2

There are these things called "mules." They're quiet, can carry about 200lbs., and can refuel themselves as they go by eating grass and drinking water...

Yeah, but they get all nervous around gunfire and explosions. They don't handle helicopters and the airdrop well either. Packing several dozen of them to fit into a C130 for the 12 hour overseas trip is also a bit difficult.

Re: Marine Corps Shelves Futuristic Robo-Mule Due to Noise Concerns

#27

Post by thinkcontext »

I wonder at what price point the civilian market could support these? There must be a fair number of applications for resupply where humans (sherpas), actual animal mules or helicopters are required, ie, forestry, National Park rangers, science, recreation, etc.

Re: Marine Corps Shelves Futuristic Robo-Mule Due to Noise Concerns

#28

Post by pj_mukh »

jarmitage wrote: post #14

Can anyone in robotics weigh in on whether new approaches like pneubotics / otherlab [0, 1] make Boston Dynamics' super heavy/noisy/expensive robots irrelevant or not? That's what Saul Griffith has been saying at least [2], I'd like to hear an impartial take on it [0] http://www.pneubotics.com/ [1] https://otherlab.com/projects [2] "[...] we're the only game in town." 21:00 onwards https://youtu.be/gyMowPAJwqo?t=1263

Boston Dynamics' primary innovation is in the software/control design. The reason their robots are noisy is because they really haven't innovated a whole lot in the basic actuator design. That's not to say their mechanical design was easy, not by a long shot. It's super impressive stuff!

Any new inventions that would make their mechanical design steer away from loud hydraulics would no doubt be amazing. However, without Boston dynamics' delightfully ground-breaking controls software design, it'll be dead in the water!

For a little bit of proof, see who they are hiring! http://www.bostondynamics.com/bd_jobs.html

Re: Marine Corps Shelves Futuristic Robo-Mule Due to Noise Concerns

#29

Post by gene-h »

ck2 wrote: post #5

Irony of it being all electric motors/actuators but needing a gas engine to power it so it is very loud.

If it is like the original big dog then it doesn't use electric motors/actuators it uses hydraulics that are driven by the gas engine.[0] Supposedly it gets ~0.5 miles per gallon.

[0] http://www.bostondynamics.com/img/BigDog_Overview.pdf

Re: Marine Corps Shelves Futuristic Robo-Mule Due to Noise Concerns

#30

Post by melling »

Lambdanaut wrote: post #9

These are the "Big Dog" mules being built by Boston Dynamics, who was recently acquired by Google. Google has been against militarizing the robots since acquisition, so they're no doubt happy to have this contract dropped. To be clear, this doesn't mean the project is shelved, it means the contract with the Marine Corps is shelved. Google will be able to focus more directly on civilian uses for the mules from here on…

Why are they against militarizing robots? It pays the bills. They could start with consumers or business but it's harder to build a market. This makes it harder to fund further development.

Once the technology is developed by anyone for non-military use, transitioning to the military is easy. There's not some magic that prevents consumer developed technology from reaching the battlefield.

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