Live data from Hacker News

Java's Cover (2001)

paulgraham.com

21–30 of 45 posts

Re: Java's Cover (2001)

#21
post #6
post #4

Spot on. Java is such a sad language, so verbose, so cumbersome, so inexpressive, radiating such a condescending stupidity. Its pervasiveness today, at the end of fucking 2015, is just depressing.

You do realize, it's actually pretty good... otherwise it wouldn't be as "pervasive" as it is... (there's hundreds of programming languages, yet Java continues to be one of the most used)

Haters gonna hate no matter how many reasons you give them. Java is the #1 language out there.

Re: Java's Cover (2001)

#22
post #16

No one loves it. C, Perl, Python, Smalltalk, and Lisp programmers love their languages. I've never heard anyone say that they loved Java. - You must be kidding me, ever been to any JUG meeting or JavaOne conference? There are millions of hardcore Java lovers at those places. Java has one of the the biggest developer community world wide. I love Java - it's one of the best programming language till date.

Hear, Hear! A Java fan here.

Re: Java's Cover (2001)

#23
post #12

So pg predicts that hackers are going to hate Java. Hackers mostly hate Java. Because of this, pg predicts Java will be unsuccessful. Java's actually pretty successful. This is kind of sobering. Possibly we overestimate the social influence of hackers.

There is a big difference between hackers and professional programmers. He is clearly not talking about the latter.

Re: Java's Cover (2001)

#24
post #9

"the less one knows, the wiser one is"

I don't see how you reach that conclusion. It's possible that posessing some knowledge may lead to overconfidence, but that too is a problem with a lack of knowledge - knowing the limits of your knowledge. Knowledge is always beneficial to a rational agent.

Re: Java's Cover (2001)

#25
post #3

Looks like he was wrong.

> Bear in mind, this is not a critique of Java, but a critique of its cover. I don't know Java well enough to like it or dislike it. This is just an explanation of why I don't find that I'm eager to learn it.

I think this post proves two things: a) "books" are in fact very difficult to judge by their covers and b) predicting the future, even only a decade ahead and in an industry you live in, is a fruitless endeavor

Re: Java's Cover (2001)

#26
"I'm not writing here about Java (which I have never used)"

"I've never written a Java program, never more than glanced over reference books about it"

... yet he felt qualified to dismiss it all the same.

Re: Java's Cover (2001)

#27
post #4

Spot on. Java is such a sad language, so verbose, so cumbersome, so inexpressive, radiating such a condescending stupidity. Its pervasiveness today, at the end of fucking 2015, is just depressing.

Speaking of radiating condescension...

Re: Java's Cover (2001)

#28
post #11
post #4

Spot on. Java is such a sad language, so verbose, so cumbersome, so inexpressive, radiating such a condescending stupidity. Its pervasiveness today, at the end of fucking 2015, is just depressing.

Your comment history indicates you're a Javascript programmer. No comment.

I wish, but unfortunately I do backend work in Java as well. The relative expressiveness and simplicity of JavaScript saves me from Stockholm syndrome, I guess. But still... Every time I touch Java I have to puke a little in my mouth while tears of blood roll down my cheeks and my soul dies a little. The horror.

Re: Java's Cover (2001)

#29
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I do not realise that. Popularity doesn't equal quality. Summoning Paul Graham again: http://paulgraham.com/pypar.html

It is actually not a bad language and with an IDE like Eclipse or inteliJ you can be quite productive. Sure, they've screwed up majorly a couple of times like inventing JSP and going a bit overboard with J2EE. Overall it is not bad.

"It is actually not a bad language and with an IDE like Eclipse or inteliJ you can be quite productive."

Just as the guy with two broken legs can get around a little bit using a wheelchair. Yes, the wheelchair might be great, but the poor bastard still can't dance.

Re: Java's Cover (2001)

#30
Well, this isn't very good. "No one had to promote C, or Unix, or HTML"? Really?

I tend to find his essays much less interesting and persuasive now than I used to. I'm not sure why.

Post reply on HN