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The DNC data breach

blog.ngpvan.com

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Re: The DNC data breach

#21

Post by sethbannon »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #17
sethbannon wrote: post #16

For those that are not familiar with the space, campaigns typically use voter contact software to record the results of the conversations they have with potential voters on the phones, at the doors, and over the Internet. In this case, the voter contact software that both the Hillary and Sanders campaigns were using, NGP VAN, had a bug which allowed both campaigns to access each other's private, proprietary data (in…

Difficulty level in replicating this dataset from secretary of state rolls?

Not technically difficult but incredibly tedious. First, you have to go out and collect it from all 50 Secretaries of State, and in come cases county officials. Some states send you the data on a CD (no joke). You then have to clean the data, which is often not in great shape, and then normalize it.

Even then, you only have a snapshot, because the states typically don't keep historical data. What this means is that your dataset won't be as good as someone who's been collecting this data for years, and thereby knows things you won't like where someone used to live, how often they voted there, who recently dropped off the registered voter rolls, etc.

In this case, even this data wouldn't be enough, because the Sanders team had made likely hundreds of thousands of contacts with voters, and recorded what issues they cared about and who they planned to vote for. This data, which they personally collected, is now inaccessible to them.

edit: expounded

Re: The DNC data breach

#22

Post by toufka »

A significant problem with 'dynasties' is that you start to get perceived, if not real conflicts of interest above and beyond governance itself.

As was pointed out in this reddit thread [1],The CEO of NPG VAN (Stu Trevelyan) is a strong supporter of Hillary Clinton and worked on the 1992 Clinton-Gore "War Room," and then in the Clinton White House [2].

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/3xbt3w/bernie_s...

[2] https://personaldemocracy.com/stu-trevelyan

Re: The DNC data breach

#23

Post by [deleted] »

sethbannon wrote: post #21
toomuchtodo wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Difficulty level in replicating this dataset from secretary of state rolls?

Not technically difficult but incredibly tedious. First, you have to go out and collect it from all 50 Secretaries of State, and in come cases county officials. Some states send you the data on a CD (no joke). You then have to clean the data, which is often not in great shape, and then normalize it. Even then, you only have a snapshot, because the states typically don't keep historical data. What this means is that y…

[deleted]

Re: The DNC data breach

#24

Post by dragonwriter »

toufka wrote: post #22

A significant problem with 'dynasties' is that you start to get perceived, if not real conflicts of interest above and beyond governance itself. As was pointed out in this reddit thread [1],The CEO of NPG VAN (Stu Trevelyan) is a strong supporter of Hillary Clinton and worked on the 1992 Clinton-Gore "War Room," and then in the Clinton White House [2]. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/3xbt3w/bernie_s.…

Even without dynasties, its not at all uncommon (in fact, its rather routine) for either party committee chairs or firms serving parties or campaigns to have close ties to one or more of the candidates.

Re: The DNC data breach

#25

Post by smadge »

slg wrote: post #6

If you believe the Sanders camp, this sounds a lot like the Instagram bug bounty issue [1] that appeared on HN recently. Someone from the Sanders campaign identified a bug and to prove their was an issue grabbed private data that they should have never had the ability to access. That is questionable ethically whether they looked at the data or not. The DNC also can't immediately tell if it is the truth or if the data…

I think it is pretty unreasonable. As you note, there is no technical reason to deny the Bernie campaign access to their data. The Bernie campaign has fully indicated they want and are willing to cooperate with a third party investigation into the data breach, which would require investigating both campaigns, the DNC, and NPG VAN. Given they are already willing to share everything they know about the incident, there is absolute no legitimate reason for the DNC to intentionally sabotage the campaign.

Re: The DNC data breach

#26

Post by slg »

sethbannon wrote: post #21
toomuchtodo wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Difficulty level in replicating this dataset from secretary of state rolls?

Not technically difficult but incredibly tedious. First, you have to go out and collect it from all 50 Secretaries of State, and in come cases county officials. Some states send you the data on a CD (no joke). You then have to clean the data, which is often not in great shape, and then normalize it. Even then, you only have a snapshot, because the states typically don't keep historical data. What this means is that y…

Except it wasn't just a list of voters. It also included "client scores". That means the Sanders campaign had access to modelling information regarding the Clinton campaign's list. It is pretty valuable knowing how the other campaign values and/or targets specific voters and that is something that obviously can't be found from public info.

Re: The DNC data breach

#28

Post by slg »

smadge wrote: post #25
slg wrote: post #6

If you believe the Sanders camp, this sounds a lot like the Instagram bug bounty issue [1] that appeared on HN recently. Someone from the Sanders campaign identified a bug and to prove their was an issue grabbed private data that they should have never had the ability to access. That is questionable ethically whether they looked at the data or not. The DNC also can't immediately tell if it is the truth or if the data…

I think it is pretty unreasonable. As you note, there is no technical reason to deny the Bernie campaign access to their data. The Bernie campaign has fully indicated they want and are willing to cooperate with a third party investigation into the data breach, which would require investigating both campaigns, the DNC, and NPG VAN. Given they are already willing to share everything they know about the incident, there…

There is no technical reason, but that doesn't mean there is no reason. Sanders campaign may have violated rules. The DNC has thrown them in jail without bail in hopes that it gets things resolved quickly. I have no problem with that. If the DNC drags this process out that would be a very different story.

Re: The DNC data breach

#29

Post by jdnier »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #17
sethbannon wrote: post #16

For those that are not familiar with the space, campaigns typically use voter contact software to record the results of the conversations they have with potential voters on the phones, at the doors, and over the Internet. In this case, the voter contact software that both the Hillary and Sanders campaigns were using, NGP VAN, had a bug which allowed both campaigns to access each other's private, proprietary data (in…

Difficulty level in replicating this dataset from secretary of state rolls?

My understanding is that the DNC contracts with VAN to manage the voter files for all fifty states. It's a shared database, with candidates able to build up their own data on top. All the campaigns can see the underlying voter data, but they additions they make are private to the individual campaign. The Sanders campaign staffers realized they were able to see Clinton campaign data they should not have access to. That's all that happened. The problem was fixed within a few hours. The Sanders people didn't abuse the bug in any significant way, in fact they reported it. But then the DNC cut off Sanders campaign access completely -- the nation-wide voter file, all their additions, inaccessible. At this point, the DNC response seems more punitive than security-related.

Re: The DNC data breach

#30

Post by [deleted] »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #17
sethbannon wrote: post #16

For those that are not familiar with the space, campaigns typically use voter contact software to record the results of the conversations they have with potential voters on the phones, at the doors, and over the Internet. In this case, the voter contact software that both the Hillary and Sanders campaigns were using, NGP VAN, had a bug which allowed both campaigns to access each other's private, proprietary data (in…

Difficulty level in replicating this dataset from secretary of state rolls?

[deleted]
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