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Wild bees are recycling plastic, study finds (2014)

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Re: Wild bees are recycling plastic, study finds (2014)

#21

Post by TeMPOraL »

codeshaman wrote: post #19

The planet will be here a long long time after we're gone.. And it will heal itself, it will cleanse itself, because that's what it does. It's a self correcting system. The air and the water will recover, the earth will be renewed and if it's true that plastic is not degradable, well, the planet will simply incorporate plastic into a new paradigm - the Earth plus Plastic. The Earth doesn't share our prejudice towards…

The planet will be here, it will incorporate the plastic in some way, like it does with everything. The issue was never about the planet itself. Planets don't have minds (that we know of) and don't care. They just are. It's only us, humans, who care about how the planet looks like - because we can only survive in a tiny band of possible planet states, and live comfortably in even tinier band.

Re: Wild bees are recycling plastic, study finds (2014)

#22

Post by codeshaman »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #21
codeshaman wrote: post #19

The planet will be here a long long time after we're gone.. And it will heal itself, it will cleanse itself, because that's what it does. It's a self correcting system. The air and the water will recover, the earth will be renewed and if it's true that plastic is not degradable, well, the planet will simply incorporate plastic into a new paradigm - the Earth plus Plastic. The Earth doesn't share our prejudice towards…

The planet will be here, it will incorporate the plastic in some way, like it does with everything. The issue was never about the planet itself. Planets don't have minds (that we know of) and don't care. They just are. It's only us, humans, who care about how the planet looks like - because we can only survive in a tiny band of possible planet states, and live comfortably in even tinier band.

Yes. That's what the man says. "The planet is fine. We are fucked"

Re: Wild bees are recycling plastic, study finds (2014)

#23

Post by TeMPOraL »

codeshaman wrote: post #22
TeMPOraL wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The planet will be here, it will incorporate the plastic in some way, like it does with everything. The issue was never about the planet itself. Planets don't have minds (that we know of) and don't care. They just are. It's only us, humans, who care about how the planet looks like - because we can only survive in a tiny band of possible planet states, and live comfortably in even tinier band.

Yes. That's what the man says. "The planet is fine. We are fucked"

Sorry. Didn't realize at first you're quoting George Carlin. I'm watching the video now. It's the first time I hear about him. I see now that anthropomorphisation of planet is a part of humour.

Sadly, too many people think that way for serious - that the planet is important for itself, that this particular state it's in ("blue marble") is somehow meaningful for the planet itself, or valuable for reasons not related to having humans on it.

Re: Wild bees are recycling plastic, study finds (2014)

#24

Post by creshal »

pheroden wrote: post #20
pflanze wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that there are two kinds of "biodegradable" plastics. Vegetable based plastics (which are definitely unproblematic when left in the environment) and "OXO-biodegradable" plastics which are just normal plastics (like PE, PP, PS) with additions that make them break down quicker than normally. If a bag feels like a normal plastic bag then it will be one of the latter kind; vegetable based plastics have a different f…

I don't see the issue even if the plastics are invisibly dispersed in the wild. I use styrofoam in my potting soils, for a reason.

Not all plastics are safe for human ingestion, and if you disperse them in the wild, that's where they end up sooner or later.

Re: Wild bees are recycling plastic, study finds (2014)

#25

Post by Noelkd »

hanniabu wrote: post #12
rz2k wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't re-use the slogan-compatible word? I'm not sure if the bees are disqualifed if they use the plastic for a different use or how much physical alteration matters.

Yeah, reuse it the proper word for both scenarios.

Reduce, reuse, recycle!

Re: Wild bees are recycling plastic, study finds (2014)

#26

Post by kwhitefoot »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #23
codeshaman wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. That's what the man says. "The planet is fine. We are fucked"

Sorry. Didn't realize at first you're quoting George Carlin. I'm watching the video now. It's the first time I hear about him. I see now that anthropomorphisation of planet is a part of humour. Sadly, too many people think that way for serious - that the planet is important for itself, that this particular state it's in ("blue marble") is somehow meaningful for the planet itself, or valuable for reasons not related t…

> or valuable for reasons not related to having humans on it.

If there is life outside then it might value the blue marble.

And it is also possible that it could become valuable for non-human (AI?) reasons later.

Re: Wild bees are recycling plastic, study finds (2014)

#27

Post by pheroden »

creshal wrote: post #24
pheroden wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see the issue even if the plastics are invisibly dispersed in the wild. I use styrofoam in my potting soils, for a reason.

Not all plastics are safe for human ingestion, and if you disperse them in the wild, that's where they end up sooner or later.

Ah, I made the assumption that a vegetable oil based plastic would at worst break down or go rancid. And tiny bits of rancid oil wouldn't be harmful. However, if they're using other chemicals to produce these, then it's entirely possible that they would be unsafe. My bad.

Re: Wild bees are recycling plastic, study finds (2014)

#28

Post by pflanze »

pheroden wrote: post #27
creshal wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all plastics are safe for human ingestion, and if you disperse them in the wild, that's where they end up sooner or later.

Ah, I made the assumption that a vegetable oil based plastic would at worst break down or go rancid. And tiny bits of rancid oil wouldn't be harmful. However, if they're using other chemicals to produce these, then it's entirely possible that they would be unsafe. My bad.

I explicitly said that vegetable based plastics are not a problem. What we're worried about are the OXO plastics, which are not vegetable, but mineral oil based.

Re: Wild bees are recycling plastic, study finds (2014)

#29

Post by pheroden »

pflanze wrote: post #28
pheroden wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, I made the assumption that a vegetable oil based plastic would at worst break down or go rancid. And tiny bits of rancid oil wouldn't be harmful. However, if they're using other chemicals to produce these, then it's entirely possible that they would be unsafe. My bad.

I explicitly said that vegetable based plastics are not a problem. What we're worried about are the OXO plastics, which are not vegetable, but mineral oil based.

I obviously misread your comment. My bad. Not a good day for commenting for me.

Re: Wild bees are recycling plastic, study finds (2014)

#30

Post by tripzilch »

ivanca wrote: post #9
Bud wrote: post #7

This isn't recycling, though. The bees are using the material, not recycling it.

If a human uses wasted plastic is called recycling, don't know what would it be any different for bees.

> If a human uses wasted plastic is called recycling, don't know what would it be any different for bees.

Bee-cycling.

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