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Uber becomes legal in NSW, Australia – taxi owners to be compensated

dailytelegraph.com.au

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Re: Uber becomes legal in NSW, Australia – taxi owners to be compensated

#21

Post by Scoundreller »

thisrod wrote: post #17
victorhooi wrote: post #13

This is awesome news! As a NSW taxpayer, I'm not too sure I agree with the government doling out our taxpayers to compensate a dying/legacy industry, or tacking on $1 per Uber ride to pay them out but I suppose the taxi lobby is strong, and the government needs to pander to them. I'm curious what licensing is required, will be good to hear more details.

> I'm not too sure I agree with the government doling out our taxpayers to compensate a dying/legacy industry This is a tradition in Australia. When our law creates property rights that shouldn't exist, and people spend money in good faith to buy those rights, we compensate them when we fix the law and their property stops existing. We did the same thing with water licences: it wasn't the farmers' fault that the legi…

Buy a government license for $100 and your business fails: tough luck.

Buy a government license for $100k and your business fails: here's your money back.

Re: Uber becomes legal in NSW, Australia – taxi owners to be compensated

#22

Post by sanswork »

cletus wrote: post #15
victorhooi wrote: post #13

This is awesome news! As a NSW taxpayer, I'm not too sure I agree with the government doling out our taxpayers to compensate a dying/legacy industry, or tacking on $1 per Uber ride to pay them out but I suppose the taxi lobby is strong, and the government needs to pander to them. I'm curious what licensing is required, will be good to hear more details.

The government has sold taxi licensed/medallions for the right to provide this service. If this were real estate eminent domain would apply and the owners would be compensated. It seems consistent to compensate existing license holders.

The government sold taxis the right to pick up people from the side of the road without previous contact. They still have that and uber doesn't. They haven't lost anything but business to a better service that doesn't need that right.

If this were real estate it would be the government paying a slumlord money to make up for the fact that they approved a new apartment building next door which is nicer with lower rent.

Re: Uber becomes legal in NSW, Australia – taxi owners to be compensated

#23

Post by will_hughes »

Scoundreller wrote: post #21
thisrod wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not too sure I agree with the government doling out our taxpayers to compensate a dying/legacy industry This is a tradition in Australia. When our law creates property rights that shouldn't exist, and people spend money in good faith to buy those rights, we compensate them when we fix the law and their property stops existing. We did the same thing with water licences: it wasn't the farmers' fault that the legi…

Buy a government license for $100 and your business fails: tough luck. Buy a government license for $100k and your business fails: here's your money back.

Well, it's closer to 'Bought a taxi plate for $400k, it's now worth ~$280k, here's $20k for your troubles'

I'm not sure that the $280k pricetag is going to work given the changes (in Sydney, anyway).

The only advantage now that a taxi plate has is that they can stand at ranks, be hailed and operate at the Airport.

Re: Uber becomes legal in NSW, Australia – taxi owners to be compensated

#24

Post by seanmcdirmid »

sanswork wrote: post #20
tacostakohashi wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article doesn't go into great detail on funding, but it does say "Both taxi and Uber drivers will also have to pay the government a $1 levy per trip for a maximum of five years to fund the compensation package.". Presumably, the $1 per trip levy is intended to fund the compensation, rather than it coming from general revenue / other tax sources. If that's the case, I think it's great that taxi / uber users will b…

The problem is the compensation package shouldn't exist at all. We shouldn't be paying for failing investments.

It is not that really that we shouldn't be paying for failing investments, but that some sort of moral hazard should exist for businesses who don't proactively keep up with the times.

Re: Uber becomes legal in NSW, Australia – taxi owners to be compensated

#25

Post by lukevdp »

sanswork wrote: post #20
tacostakohashi wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article doesn't go into great detail on funding, but it does say "Both taxi and Uber drivers will also have to pay the government a $1 levy per trip for a maximum of five years to fund the compensation package.". Presumably, the $1 per trip levy is intended to fund the compensation, rather than it coming from general revenue / other tax sources. If that's the case, I think it's great that taxi / uber users will b…

The problem is the compensation package shouldn't exist at all. We shouldn't be paying for failing investments.

The problem is that taxi plates were so expensive and the fees went to the government as a requirement to be able to drive a taxi. A taxi driver that spent 100k to the government for an exclusive right to drive passengers should be compensated by the government when they break their end of the deal.

Re: Uber becomes legal in NSW, Australia – taxi owners to be compensated

#26

Post by repsilat »

joseakle wrote: post #4
pavel_lishin wrote: post #2

> The perpetual owners of taxi plates, about 5800 people, will receive a $20,000 payment for the plate. Multiple plate owners will receive a maximum of $40,000. > Both taxi and Uber drivers will also have to pay the government a $1 levy per trip for a maximum of five years to fund the compensation package. So, "here's $20k, now start paying us back"? I wonder how long it takes to accrue 20k rides in a taxi.

For an average of 7 rides/day ~7 years, 20 rides/day ~3 years. Assuming the car is working daily.

Having a taxi collect a $1 just to redistribute it back to taxi drivers seems a little pointless. The real impact will be in the levy money collected by Uber drivers, so the ratio of Uber drivers to taxi medallions is very relevant.

Re: Uber becomes legal in NSW, Australia – taxi owners to be compensated

#27

Post by sanswork »

lukevdp wrote: post #25
sanswork wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the compensation package shouldn't exist at all. We shouldn't be paying for failing investments.

The problem is that taxi plates were so expensive and the fees went to the government as a requirement to be able to drive a taxi. A taxi driver that spent 100k to the government for an exclusive right to drive passengers should be compensated by the government when they break their end of the deal.

They weren't paying for the exclusive right to drive passengers though. Hire car drivers could already do that. They were paying for the exclusive right to pick up people off the street without prior arrangement which they already have.

Re: Uber becomes legal in NSW, Australia – taxi owners to be compensated

#28

Post by ank_the_elder »

victorhooi wrote: post #12
ank_the_elder wrote: post #6

Why aren't we addressing the safety aspects of Uber rather than making it legal? Can we not ensure that the cars are professionally insured, professionally driven and kept up to standard and safe to be in? That should be our number one priority before allowing the company to continue operating. Some random examples: http://www.cnet.com/au/news/sydney-ridesharing-driver-charge... http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-o…

Sorry, but these examples are pretty laughable. Do you live in Sydney, or even Australia? As a Uber customer in Australia, safety is not something I need to worry about getting into an Uber. I can see the photo of the driver before I get in, I can see his rating, and I know the entire ride including GPS location etc. will be stored in the cloud. Your examples only prove my point. That's a lot more accountability that…

None of those examples strike me as funny; I am somewhat concerned that you can laugh in the face of human suffering.

I am also not defending taxi drivers. The other day I had to take a taxi for a $9 ride and the guy was less than graceful about the fact that I wasn't going very far from his taxi line.

But the solution is not knee-jerk deregulation - although I agree that a shakeup is necessary and warranted.

Re: Uber becomes legal in NSW, Australia – taxi owners to be compensated

#29

Post by [deleted] »

victorhooi wrote: post #13

This is awesome news! As a NSW taxpayer, I'm not too sure I agree with the government doling out our taxpayers to compensate a dying/legacy industry, or tacking on $1 per Uber ride to pay them out but I suppose the taxi lobby is strong, and the government needs to pander to them. I'm curious what licensing is required, will be good to hear more details.

[deleted]

Re: Uber becomes legal in NSW, Australia – taxi owners to be compensated

#30

Post by victorhooi »

will_hughes wrote: post #23
Scoundreller wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buy a government license for $100 and your business fails: tough luck. Buy a government license for $100k and your business fails: here's your money back.

Well, it's closer to 'Bought a taxi plate for $400k, it's now worth ~$280k, here's $20k for your troubles' I'm not sure that the $280k pricetag is going to work given the changes (in Sydney, anyway). The only advantage now that a taxi plate has is that they can stand at ranks, be hailed and operate at the Airport.

Taxi medallion fell in price around 2011, because the government increased the supply (consumers started screaming about high taxi prices - and trust me, as a Sydney-sider, they are ridiculous, and the service is on the whole, pretty shoddy. I challenge you to find anybody who will defend Sydney taxi pricing, or their service).

You don't see the government compensating the taxi drivers for that - taxpayers would be up in arms.

It's only now, that they have somebody external to demonise, that they can get away with giving our money to them.

At the end of the day, nothing was taken away from the taxi drivers - they still have exclusive rights to pick up from ranks, and of course, can still operate as taxis. It's just, the digital age caught up with them, and they now have some real competition. A lot of the Uber drivers I spoke to, do this as a part-time gig (at least in Sydney) - they have a car, spare time, why not make use of it. Everybody wins.

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