Richard Stallman on The Setup • Hacker News Board

Re: Richard Stallman on The Setup

#21

Post by ghshephard » Sat, Jan 23, 2010, 10:57 AM UTC

axod wrote: post #19

I don't understand the god like status given to this guy. He's clearly crazy and from a whole other world than the one real people live in. Who really cares if their BIOS is open source or not? Why does it matter? Are the designs used to make his laptop case open source as well? I doubt it.

http://www.virtualteacher.com.au/crazyone.html

Seriously though, rms, is one of the principal founders of the free software philosophy, and creator of the GPL, upon which some significant software has been licensed. He's consistent in his vision, which is freedom, and can reliably be looked to for guidance on topics regarding those freedoms.

Can you identify even three people who have had as significant impact on free (as in speech) software?

[edit - I don't mean people like linus, who create great software, but people who develop/evangelize free software philosophies - Theo De Raadt comes to mind - there aren't too many others that I can think of right away]

Re: Richard Stallman on The Setup

#22

Post by sailormoon » Sat, Jan 23, 2010, 10:58 AM UTC

Ironic that the only laptop running free software from top to bottom is made in China.

Pretty cool little computers they make too. Check out this: http://www.lemote.com/bencandy.php?fid=134&id=675

RMB¥1699, that's about AUD$295 or USD $265.

Or if you prefer the iMac form factor: http://www.lemote.com/bencandy.php?fid=136&id=849

WTF is with the name of that PHP script though.

Re: Richard Stallman on The Setup

#23

Post by axod » Sat, Jan 23, 2010, 11:06 AM UTC

ghshephard wrote: post #21

axod wrote: post #19

I don't understand the god like status given to this guy. He's clearly crazy and from a whole other world than the one real people live in. Who really cares if their BIOS is open source or not? Why does it matter? Are the designs used to make his laptop case open source as well? I doubt it.

http://www.virtualteacher.com.au/crazyone.html Seriously though, rms, is one of the principal founders of the free software philosophy, and creator of the GPL, upon which some significant software has been licensed. He's consistent in his vision, which is freedom, and can reliably be looked to for guidance on topics regarding those freedoms. Can you identify even three people who have had as significant impact on fre…

Free software existed before the GPL. Pretty sure linux would still have happened without it.

People are moving to a web based architecture all the time. The amount of software people actually download and install is reducing, so to some extent the whole idea of OSS for most people (I believe) is becoming less important.

Meanwhile Richard Stallman doesn't even use the web.

I just don't see it as that relevant anymore.

Re: Richard Stallman on The Setup

#24

Post by axod » Sat, Jan 23, 2010, 11:10 AM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #13

andrewljohnson wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beliefs are the bastion of the uninformed, and those so set in their ways they can't take a moment to think things through.

What you call beliefs, I call principles. It's nice to know he doesn't compromise them.

Why is that a nice trait to have?

The world isn't perfect. It's certainly not black or white either. You have to compromise.

Re: Richard Stallman on The Setup

#25

Post by Jach » Sat, Jan 23, 2010, 11:38 AM UTC

axod wrote: post #23

ghshephard wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.virtualteacher.com.au/crazyone.html Seriously though, rms, is one of the principal founders of the free software philosophy, and creator of the GPL, upon which some significant software has been licensed. He's consistent in his vision, which is freedom, and can reliably be looked to for guidance on topics regarding those freedoms. Can you identify even three people who have had as significant impact on fre…

Free software existed before the GPL. Pretty sure linux would still have happened without it. People are moving to a web based architecture all the time. The amount of software people actually download and install is reducing, so to some extent the whole idea of OSS for most people (I believe) is becoming less important. Meanwhile Richard Stallman doesn't even use the web. I just don't see it as that relevant anymore…

I have a feeling it's only going to get more relevant, because now the software is moving toward the web, it is insanely convenient and easy to lock-in users and restrict freedoms.

There are of course a freaking huge number of problems with the idea of open-sourcing the entirety of many website backends. I think there can be great discussion though on various models. GitHub offering web hosting instead of just repo hosting seems like a possibility.

Re: Richard Stallman on The Setup

#26

Post by sfk » Sat, Jan 23, 2010, 11:56 AM UTC

axod wrote: post #23

ghshephard wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.virtualteacher.com.au/crazyone.html Seriously though, rms, is one of the principal founders of the free software philosophy, and creator of the GPL, upon which some significant software has been licensed. He's consistent in his vision, which is freedom, and can reliably be looked to for guidance on topics regarding those freedoms. Can you identify even three people who have had as significant impact on fre…

Free software existed before the GPL. Pretty sure linux would still have happened without it. People are moving to a web based architecture all the time. The amount of software people actually download and install is reducing, so to some extent the whole idea of OSS for most people (I believe) is becoming less important. Meanwhile Richard Stallman doesn't even use the web. I just don't see it as that relevant anymore…

The (A)GPL is still very relevant. The whole point of free software (in the GNU sense) is that you should have complete access to the sources of a software system.

In the case of a web application, this includes server side software. No matter what some vocal AGPL opponents here say, this opinion is not exclusively held by fundamentalists:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=15855

Re: Richard Stallman on The Setup

#27

Post by axod » Sat, Jan 23, 2010, 12:00 PM UTC

Jach wrote: post #25

axod wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free software existed before the GPL. Pretty sure linux would still have happened without it. People are moving to a web based architecture all the time. The amount of software people actually download and install is reducing, so to some extent the whole idea of OSS for most people (I believe) is becoming less important. Meanwhile Richard Stallman doesn't even use the web. I just don't see it as that relevant anymore…

I have a feeling it's only going to get more relevant, because now the software is moving toward the web, it is insanely convenient and easy to lock-in users and restrict freedoms. There are of course a freaking huge number of problems with the idea of open-sourcing the entirety of many website backends. I think there can be great discussion though on various models. GitHub offering web hosting instead of just repo h…

>> "it is insanely convenient and easy to lock-in users and restrict freedoms."

I agree, but is that really a bad thing? We all have to make money somehow. I'd rather website owners had real incentive to please their users, and being able to make money is a good incentive.

I don't see how open source can really be relevant on the web. If facebook want to do something to drive users away, or ristrict users freedom, that's up to them. If they do it enough, someone else will setup a rival website that pleases users better. How does open sourcing fit into this? I don't think it does. Most website is simple enough that you don't need free source code. Any one of us could clone facebook if we had enough time and determination.

Open sourcing is certainly a nice thing to do, and I'm sure we'd be lost without our own favorite open source tools, but I think it makes less sense on the web.

As I've said before, I don't use X because it's open source, I use it because it's free, and there are people behind it who care.

I think that's all that matters really.

Re: Richard Stallman on The Setup

#28

Post by rbanffy » Sat, Jan 23, 2010, 12:01 PM UTC

cschwarm wrote: post #20

rbanffy wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you call beliefs, I call principles. It's nice to know he doesn't compromise them.

And what you call principles, I call dogmata.

Why?

Re: Richard Stallman on The Setup

#29

Post by papaf » Sat, Jan 23, 2010, 12:06 PM UTC

romland wrote: post #2

accidentally touching the mouse-pad and moving the pointer, which would be a nuisance Sheesh. One would hope he has better reasons than that for using console. It's not that hard to configure X to not switch window on mouse-over. No offense RMS. :) I didn't know about the yeeloong, though. Interesting device.

I also use emacs -nw on my netbook. Its faster than the graphical emacs and, if you turn off the menus, its a quiet minimalist experience.

Re: Richard Stallman on The Setup

#30

Post by weavejester » Sat, Jan 23, 2010, 12:21 PM UTC

axod wrote: post #24

rbanffy wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you call beliefs, I call principles. It's nice to know he doesn't compromise them.

Why is that a nice trait to have? The world isn't perfect. It's certainly not black or white either. You have to compromise.

Often it's the people that refuse to compromise that make the world a better place. Do you think Martin Luther King should have compromised on his vision of racial equality?

Whilst the civil rights movement is obviously far more important than the free software movement, the idea that ideals should not be compromised is at the core of both. Unlike, say, the BSD license, the GPL is a license that allows for no compromise. If you want to distribute modifications, you must also distribute the source. It's this ideology that made the more pragmatic open-source movement possible in the first place.