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Girls in California Are Latest to Seek to Become Boy Scouts

nytimes.com

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Re: Girls in California Are Latest to Seek to Become Boy Scouts

#21
post #18
post #5

As a Boy Scout we often had sisters of scouts come along on our outings. Half the time one or more parents would come, and it just makes more sense. "Admitting" them as full members is just a formalism on top of the core experience, so why not? Also, it's a shame that these girls don't feel like girl scouts does enough for their sense of adventure and play. The girl scouts should also step up to accommodate them. And…

There's no reason a Girl Scout troop can't do all sorts of adventure activities. My wife led a troop that did all their meetings at a GS camp where they usually cooked over a campfire as part of each meeting. The biggest blow to Girl Scouts is how they're organized. They're almost always single-age troops, which means there's no scout-to-scout mentoring and there are a lot less scouts per unit. It's much harder to ke…

>>> The biggest blow to Girl Scouts is how they're organized.

My wife has expressed the same sentiment. She was a leader in our daughter's Girl Scout troop, which had maybe a dozen or so girls and fell apart as the girls got to middle school and high school.

In contrast, our son's Boy Scout troop is currently over 80 years old and has some 250 to 300 registered Scouts and maybe 50 fully-trained adult leaders (including a number of moms).

My wife said that the biggest difference she saw between the Girl Scouts and the Boy Scouts was that Boy Scout troops are chartered to an organization (typically a church), whereas GS troops are all formed ad hoc.

Re: Girls in California Are Latest to Seek to Become Boy Scouts

#22

Isn't there a valuable lesson to teach here? A group has become dissatisfied with a monopoly on girl scouting and created a more satisfying alternative. They've taken the responsibility upon themselves to create that which they desire. Unfortunately, I don't think that's the lesson the Unicorns' parents are trying to encourage. There's nothing wrong with co-ed scouting. There's nothing wrong with single-gender scouti…

>There's nothing wrong with co-ed scouting.

How would that work in camps? Apart from having to have separate times for bathing, obviously.

The wonderful thing I remember from my time was that there was very little status jockeying in our troop. It wasn't like school at all. I felt like I could trust and rely on most everyone.

Now, I'm not sure introducing girls into this would not mess it up. Teenage boys behave differently with women around. Instincts involved are likely much more powerful than mere social technology.

Re: Girls in California Are Latest to Seek to Become Boy Scouts

#23

As potential members flee the Boy Scouts & Girl Scouts, two new organizations are providing a return to "hardcore scouting" and respect classic gender differences: Trail Life and American Heritage Girls. They're growing fast, providing traditional values and no "sexual engineering / gender exploration", focusing on the badge work and learning outdoor & life skills. It's what a lot of parents, disgusted with the recen…

Sure, but only if by "hardcore scouting" you mean right-wing, evangelical Christan scouting.

Re: Girls in California Are Latest to Seek to Become Boy Scouts

#24

Isn't there a valuable lesson to teach here? A group has become dissatisfied with a monopoly on girl scouting and created a more satisfying alternative. They've taken the responsibility upon themselves to create that which they desire. Unfortunately, I don't think that's the lesson the Unicorns' parents are trying to encourage. There's nothing wrong with co-ed scouting. There's nothing wrong with single-gender scouti…

>There's nothing wrong with co-ed scouting. How would that work in camps? Apart from having to have separate times for bathing, obviously. The wonderful thing I remember from my time was that there was very little status jockeying in our troop. It wasn't like school at all. I felt like I could trust and rely on most everyone. Now, I'm not sure introducing girls into this would not mess it up. Teenage boys behave diff…

Do 10-year-old girls count as "women"?

I think your concerns about the dynamic are very valid -- on both sides -- but it's probably useful to remember that the girls and boys specifically mentioned in the article are pre-puberty (10 and 12 year olds, one 13 yr old).

Re: Girls in California Are Latest to Seek to Become Boy Scouts

#25
post #5

As a Boy Scout we often had sisters of scouts come along on our outings. Half the time one or more parents would come, and it just makes more sense. "Admitting" them as full members is just a formalism on top of the core experience, so why not? Also, it's a shame that these girls don't feel like girl scouts does enough for their sense of adventure and play. The girl scouts should also step up to accommodate them. And…

I tried to join the Girl Scouts and did some similar group activities through 4H. I wanted to learn about fire and camping, and after a session of gluing plastic rhinestones to cups or something and then the promise of learning how to do my hair I quit. How boring & frustrating, and not at all what I'd read about in my mom's Girl Scout Handbook. It was full of information on trail signs and semaphore and how to build a fire and waterproof your tent and Morse code and knots.

Re: Girls in California Are Latest to Seek to Become Boy Scouts

#26

I used to be a leader in the scouts. Before I joined, our scouting group tore itself apart because the previous leader felt that girls should be in girl scouts rather than boy scouts. When he finally relented, the mothers moved in and asked that activities be 'toned down'. When he refused, the complaints came in thick and fast. The leader was removed and the group collapsed. Nobody stepped up to fill the void. After…

The big problem, then, seems to be the parents who wanted things "toned down". Very sad. Glad you were able to reframe things so that you could grow.

Re: Girls in California Are Latest to Seek to Become Boy Scouts

#27

As potential members flee the Boy Scouts & Girl Scouts, two new organizations are providing a return to "hardcore scouting" and respect classic gender differences: Trail Life and American Heritage Girls. They're growing fast, providing traditional values and no "sexual engineering / gender exploration", focusing on the badge work and learning outdoor & life skills. It's what a lot of parents, disgusted with the recen…

What do you mean by the sexualization of Scouting? I really would like to know as I can't imagine what you are referring to.

Re: Girls in California Are Latest to Seek to Become Boy Scouts

#29
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There's nothing wrong with co-ed scouting. How would that work in camps? Apart from having to have separate times for bathing, obviously. The wonderful thing I remember from my time was that there was very little status jockeying in our troop. It wasn't like school at all. I felt like I could trust and rely on most everyone. Now, I'm not sure introducing girls into this would not mess it up. Teenage boys behave diff…

Do 10-year-old girls count as "women"? I think your concerns about the dynamic are very valid -- on both sides -- but it's probably useful to remember that the girls and boys specifically mentioned in the article are pre-puberty (10 and 12 year olds, one 13 yr old).

That's the entry age. Boy Scouts continues well through puberty (one can be a Scout until 18).

Re: Girls in California Are Latest to Seek to Become Boy Scouts

#30
post #27

As potential members flee the Boy Scouts & Girl Scouts, two new organizations are providing a return to "hardcore scouting" and respect classic gender differences: Trail Life and American Heritage Girls. They're growing fast, providing traditional values and no "sexual engineering / gender exploration", focusing on the badge work and learning outdoor & life skills. It's what a lot of parents, disgusted with the recen…

What do you mean by the sexualization of Scouting? I really would like to know as I can't imagine what you are referring to.

(Precise details aside for post brevity...) The Boy Scouts long had a "no homosexuals" policy alongside its "no females" policy, both in place largely because putting pre- and pubescent boys into a situation where possible/probable sexual attraction (wanted or not) from either gender is undesirable, uncomfortable, illegal, or otherwise problematic. Of late, these policies are being eviscerated - officially allowing problems many parents do not want their children at risk of facing.
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