Gaming the H-1B system for good • Hacker News Board

Re: Gaming the H-1B system for good

#21

Post by anpk » Wed, Nov 18, 2015, 7:43 PM UTC

Harj wrote: post #8

anpk wrote: post #6

So the solution is transfering them to triplebyte and then match them to a startup? Who pays them in the meanwhile because I believe its illegal to be on H1b and not be employed (being paid)?

They wouldn't be transferred to us or spend any time unemployed. Once someone goes through our process, we become their advocate and find them startups they'd be a good match for. They don't have to leave their employer until they've found one willing to hire them, at which point they can begin the transfer process.

If you are acting as any recruiter, how exactly are you gaming the h1b system?

Re: Gaming the H-1B system for good

#22

Post by tosseraccount » Wed, Nov 18, 2015, 7:43 PM UTC

A scholarly take on the guest worker visas from Civil Rights advocate Norm Matloff ... [ http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/h1b10min.html ]

... major attraction for employers, especially in Silicon Valley, is the "handcuffed" status of H-1Bs ...

There is no tech labor shortage.

No study, other than those sponsored by the industry, has ever shown a shortage.

Re: Gaming the H-1B system for good

#23

Post by Someone1234 » Wed, Nov 18, 2015, 7:46 PM UTC

harichinnan wrote: post #19

I was on H1B with a true blue American startup. They developed cold feet when it came closer to sponsoring Green Cards. To start with GC wage levels are much higher than H1B levels. Also close to 15K+ needs to be spent for processing+ years of patient follow up to USCIS queries/denials and surprise site inspections. The new fangled startups won't have the long term strategy/planning to get me a green card. I had much…

That's totally how they do it. The whole thing is abusive as heck, but for a lot of H1Bs it is still their best chance at a better life.

Fortunately a lot of H1Bs wind up getting change of status another way (e.g. getting married). But for those that don't, it must feel like they're in bonded labor to that employer.

Re: Gaming the H-1B system for good

#24

Post by djb_hackernews » Wed, Nov 18, 2015, 7:48 PM UTC

I sort of like this except startups typically pay below market salaries which is sort of against the spirit of the H1-B visa right? And if the startups aren't paying below market salaries then why do they need H1-Bs?

Suppose I am an SF based startup and I get a candidate from triplebyte that is on H1-B and is paid 66k by a body shop as a Level 1 Computer Programmer [0] but she is obviously talented and got taken advantage of by the body shop. Is it legal/ethical for me to still pay her ~66k if it seems like she really should be a Level 4 Systems Software Developer[1] at 138k?

[0] http://www.flcdatacenter.com/OesQuickResults.aspx?code=15-11...

[1] http://www.flcdatacenter.com/OesQuickResults.aspx?code=15-11...

Re: Gaming the H-1B system for good

#25

Post by FD3SA » Wed, Nov 18, 2015, 7:49 PM UTC

Does Triplebyte do TN visas? They're almost trivially simple to do, so the candidate could take care of it themselves without any help from the sponsoring company.

Re: Gaming the H-1B system for good

#26

Post by Someone1234 » Wed, Nov 18, 2015, 7:49 PM UTC

harichinnan wrote: post #20

harichinnan wrote: post #19

I was on H1B with a true blue American startup. They developed cold feet when it came closer to sponsoring Green Cards. To start with GC wage levels are much higher than H1B levels. Also close to 15K+ needs to be spent for processing+ years of patient follow up to USCIS queries/denials and surprise site inspections. The new fangled startups won't have the long term strategy/planning to get me a green card. I had much…

You can help end this by supporting legislation. https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/213

That legislation has absolutely nothing to do with employers helping their employees gain a green card. It just redistributes the H1Bs differently.

Did you reply to the right post?

Re: Gaming the H-1B system for good

#27

Post by jordanb » Wed, Nov 18, 2015, 7:50 PM UTC

harichinnan wrote: post #19

I was on H1B with a true blue American startup. They developed cold feet when it came closer to sponsoring Green Cards. To start with GC wage levels are much higher than H1B levels. Also close to 15K+ needs to be spent for processing+ years of patient follow up to USCIS queries/denials and surprise site inspections. The new fangled startups won't have the long term strategy/planning to get me a green card. I had much…

Yeah check out this website made by immigration lawyers:

http://hiref-1students.com/

They explicitly sell the advantage to hiring people on visa as being the control you have over them during the green card process.

Re: Gaming the H-1B system for good

#28

Post by parfe » Wed, Nov 18, 2015, 7:50 PM UTC

tosseraccount wrote: post #22

A scholarly take on the guest worker visas from Civil Rights advocate Norm Matloff ... [ http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/h1b10min.html ] ... major attraction for employers, especially in Silicon Valley, is the "handcuffed" status of H-1Bs ... There is no tech labor shortage. No study, other than those sponsored by the industry, has ever shown a shortage.

Calling the program indentured servitude didn't test well with focus groups.

Re: Gaming the H-1B system for good

#29

Post by untog » Wed, Nov 18, 2015, 7:55 PM UTC

djb_hackernews wrote: post #24

I sort of like this except startups typically pay below market salaries which is sort of against the spirit of the H1-B visa right? And if the startups aren't paying below market salaries then why do they need H1-Bs? Suppose I am an SF based startup and I get a candidate from triplebyte that is on H1-B and is paid 66k by a body shop as a Level 1 Computer Programmer [0] but she is obviously talented and got taken adva…

I sort of like this except startups typically pay below market salaries

Do they? Ones that rely heavily on equity might (and I don't think you can count equity in such situations) but the tech sector is so full of money these days that I don't think developers are paid below market at all.

Re: Gaming the H-1B system for good

#30

Post by Harj » Wed, Nov 18, 2015, 7:57 PM UTC

kgp7 wrote: post #15

This assumes that the H1B's filed by the outsourcing companies are engineers your startup would want to hire. Unfortunately thats not true, most good quality engineers are almost never employed by these outsourcing firms. The general nature of their work also is mostly maintenance based , and it tends to attract bottom of the barrel 'engineers' who often couldn't find any other job. I am skeptical whether any of thes…

This is why we think there's an opportunity for us (Triplebyte). Smaller companies have to focus their recruiting on pools with a high expected ROI (top technology companies/schools/etc). We're specializing in identifying talent without using any of the the usual signals (we do our technical interviews without looking at resumes). We can focus on pools of talent that other companies might not consider because they expect the majority of candidates wouldn't be a good fit.

Also in this particular case, I fundamentally believe there are a number of talented engineers working at these outsourcing companies because it was their only option and they're too afraid to move.