Larry Wall's Perl 6 Release Talk [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: Larry Wall's Perl 6 Release Talk [video]

#21

Post by peteretep » Sat, Nov 14, 2015, 11:29 AM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #9

Mithaldu wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You overlook the addendum in the parent post.

I don't think so - it's still 'slower than similar languages with similar features', so not sure what difference it makes that there aren't many languages to compare against, if when we do compare it's still slower. I'd be interested to see what features there are that make the system slower in general, even when they aren't being used. I did a lot of work in my PhD on making odd features not affect the performance o…

    > I'd be interested to see what features there are that
    > make the system slower in general, even when they
    > aren't being used. I did a lot of work in my PhD on
    > making odd features not affect the performance of
    > Ruby code when they aren't being used.

I suspect you would be warmly welcomed, and meet many interesting people, in the Perl6 IRC channel, especially if you lead to a link to your PhD.

Re: Larry Wall's Perl 6 Release Talk [video]

#22

Post by ab5tract » Sat, Nov 14, 2015, 11:43 AM UTC

Mithaldu wrote: post #16

drwoland wrote: post #11

I have to work with a legacy Perl codebase most weeks and I've been ignoring Perl 6 because upgrading our interpreter version is difficult for a bunch of reasons to boring to go into. I'd been naively holding out a hope that Perl 6 would improve things so I clicked on the Perl 6 for Perl 5 programmers link from perl6.org. They added code block interpolation to strings: #!/usr/bin/env perl6 my $number = 3; say( "{ $nu…

This is little different from something like: #!/usr/bin/env perl6 my $number = 3; printf( "%s\n", $number * 4 ); # prints 12 What is your complaint?

Really? printf is cool and useful for it's own domain. But there is a reason that languages provide interpolation. And the simplest possible example above is not one of those reasons.

Re: Larry Wall's Perl 6 Release Talk [video]

#23

Post by Mithaldu » Sat, Nov 14, 2015, 11:50 AM UTC

ab5tract wrote: post #22

Mithaldu wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is little different from something like: #!/usr/bin/env perl6 my $number = 3; printf( "%s\n", $number * 4 ); # prints 12 What is your complaint?

Really? printf is cool and useful for it's own domain. But there is a reason that languages provide interpolation. And the simplest possible example above is not one of those reasons.

You imply, but fail to make any actual points or explanations.

Re: Larry Wall's Perl 6 Release Talk [video]

#24

Post by cygx » Sat, Nov 14, 2015, 11:54 AM UTC

stesch wrote: post #6

rurban wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Faster than Perl5 with Moose, but slower than similar languages with similar features. But there are not many with this impressive feature set.

With all these different implementations how hard is it to access C libraries and/or make modules that use C?

As simple as writing a Perl6 signature for your C function. A proper solution for deploying your own libraries has yet to arrive (you can look up library names at runtime and compile code via the module manager, but imo it's still rather ad-hoc).

Re: Larry Wall's Perl 6 Release Talk [video]

#25

Post by hahainternet » Sat, Nov 14, 2015, 12:15 PM UTC

stesch wrote: post #6

rurban wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Faster than Perl5 with Moose, but slower than similar languages with similar features. But there are not many with this impressive feature set.

With all these different implementations how hard is it to access C libraries and/or make modules that use C?

Not very (hard): https://github.com/jnthn/zavolaj

Re: Larry Wall's Perl 6 Release Talk [video]

#26

Post by codeflo » Sat, Nov 14, 2015, 12:30 PM UTC

So, like probably many people, I was very hyped about Perl 6 in the early 2000s, followed the mailing lists and so forth, but became disappointed and stopped caring when it became painfully clear that there had been no net progress for a decade.

So please excuse my skepticism, because I'm still fascinated by Perl 6's ideas and potential. But is this another "Rakudo Star" where they just take whatever current mess they have and label it "release", or is Perl 6 really finally ready now?

Re: Larry Wall's Perl 6 Release Talk [video]

#27

Post by giancarlostoro » Sat, Nov 14, 2015, 12:46 PM UTC

codeflo wrote: post #26

So, like probably many people, I was very hyped about Perl 6 in the early 2000s, followed the mailing lists and so forth, but became disappointed and stopped caring when it became painfully clear that there had been no net progress for a decade. So please excuse my skepticism, because I'm still fascinated by Perl 6's ideas and potential. But is this another "Rakudo Star" where they just take whatever current mess the…

I keep wondering the same, especially when perl.org mentions nothing about Perl 6. It would be really nice if they showed some sort of sign there about Perl 6. Instead all we get is Perl 5.

Re: Larry Wall's Perl 6 Release Talk [video]

#28

Post by cygx » Sat, Nov 14, 2015, 1:19 PM UTC

codeflo wrote: post #26

So, like probably many people, I was very hyped about Perl 6 in the early 2000s, followed the mailing lists and so forth, but became disappointed and stopped caring when it became painfully clear that there had been no net progress for a decade. So please excuse my skepticism, because I'm still fascinated by Perl 6's ideas and potential. But is this another "Rakudo Star" where they just take whatever current mess the…

Just to clarify, what happens at Christmas is the first proper language release (as specified by the test suite) that will be accompanied by a conforming compiler release, ie the main focus is still semantics, not 'production readiness'.

That said, Rakudo of today is more usable than Rakudo of days gone by, though there are still issues (my personal pet peeve: parsing speed; hopefully, automatic precompilation will land in the not-too-distant future, which, would mitigate the problem).

Re: Larry Wall's Perl 6 Release Talk [video]

#29

Post by sigzero » Sat, Nov 14, 2015, 1:28 PM UTC

rurban wrote: post #5

visarga wrote: post #4

How fast is Perl 6 nowadays?

Faster than Perl5 with Moose, but slower than similar languages with similar features. But there are not many with this impressive feature set.

And they really haven't done any optimizations for speed yet. Larry mentions that in his talk.

Re: Larry Wall's Perl 6 Release Talk [video]

#30

Post by codeflo » Sat, Nov 14, 2015, 1:31 PM UTC

cygx wrote: post #28

codeflo wrote: post #26

So, like probably many people, I was very hyped about Perl 6 in the early 2000s, followed the mailing lists and so forth, but became disappointed and stopped caring when it became painfully clear that there had been no net progress for a decade. So please excuse my skepticism, because I'm still fascinated by Perl 6's ideas and potential. But is this another "Rakudo Star" where they just take whatever current mess the…

Just to clarify, what happens at Christmas is the first proper language release (as specified by the test suite) that will be accompanied by a conforming compiler release, ie the main focus is still semantics, not 'production readiness'. That said, Rakudo of today is more usable than Rakudo of days gone by, though there are still issues (my personal pet peeve: parsing speed; hopefully , automatic precompilation will…

Thanks for the clarification. So what does it mean to release "a language"? Is there a specification in addition to the test suite? Is the specification frozen from that point on? Or will it change, but only in backwards compatible ways?