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Belgium Tells Facebook to Stop Storing Personal Data from Non-Users

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Re: Belgium Tells Facebook to Stop Storing Personal Data from Non-Users

#21

Post by gradys »

GauntletWizard wrote: post #19

How about we learn to deal with the fact that they're not storing data that is yours in the sense of ownership, but only in the sense that it's about you? They're not storing data for no reason; They are storing data their customers have provided for the purposes of contacting you. They are storing data about you for the people who, like it or not, you shared your data with. The nasty 90s database-dump sharing is ove…

> They are storing data about you for the people who, like it or not, you shared your data with.

Exactly.

I'll add that on a technical level, you aren't being tracked like a hunter would track prey; your machine is being periodically asked to provide identifying information, and you have it configured to automatically comply.

I get that most consumers of the web don't understand this, but it is the truth.

This is what I find vexing about the EU cookie disclaimer law. Every individual website owner has to add a message to their site letting you know that they are going to request that your browser store some information on their behalf.

It makes me think about all of the manhours that could have been saved if the law had instead required major browser vendors to include a feature enabled by default that would prompt the user before storing cookies.

Re: Belgium Tells Facebook to Stop Storing Personal Data from Non-Users

#22

Post by unabridged »

gradys wrote: post #21
GauntletWizard wrote: post #19

How about we learn to deal with the fact that they're not storing data that is yours in the sense of ownership, but only in the sense that it's about you? They're not storing data for no reason; They are storing data their customers have provided for the purposes of contacting you. They are storing data about you for the people who, like it or not, you shared your data with. The nasty 90s database-dump sharing is ove…

> They are storing data about you for the people who, like it or not, you shared your data with. Exactly. I'll add that on a technical level, you aren't being tracked like a hunter would track prey; your machine is being periodically asked to provide identifying information, and you have it configured to automatically comply. I get that most consumers of the web don't understand this, but it is the truth. This is wha…

>It makes me think about all of the manhours that could have been saved if the law had instead required major browser vendors to include a feature enabled by default that would prompt the user before storing cookies.

You only need a disclaimer for a permanent cookie, which should only be used when you are logged into an account (and the disclaimer could just be part of the ToS when you create the account). I blame the websites for using permanent cookies when session cookies or no cookies would do the job.

Re: Belgium Tells Facebook to Stop Storing Personal Data from Non-Users

#24

Post by numair »

Just so people are clear --

Even if you are not using Facebook, even if none of your friends ever use Facebok or tag you in any content, Facebook is maintaining a shadow profile on you. They have your web browsing habits from the Like button, and in many countries (such as the United States) they have bought data from data brokers such as Datalogix to gain access to your grocery store purchases and other data. They can sell you as an audience on behalf of other sites/apps if they choose (they aren't doing this now, but they could), and they can continue to use third party mechanisms to keep close tabs on you. They might not know you by name, but they definitely know you by many other identifying traits.

I would be very interested to see the results of a European data request by a non-Facebook-user in a country where Facebook has been aggressive in cutting data brokerage deals. Maybe the UK or something. We can get a lot of feel good rhetoric from the company's PR and employees, but nobody really knows what is collected and stored. (Of course, the company could say "we don't have data for anyone with that name," which would be factually correct.)

There is another comment here that is completely wrong in asserting that Facebook only tracks you insomuch as is required to help your friends make use of the site. This fantasy notion might make people feel better about making use of the site -- sort of like how consumers of H&M will reason that "those Bangladeshi girls really needed the job" -- but it isn't the truth.

Re: Belgium Tells Facebook to Stop Storing Personal Data from Non-Users

#25

Post by cpeterso »

gradys wrote: post #21
GauntletWizard wrote: post #19

How about we learn to deal with the fact that they're not storing data that is yours in the sense of ownership, but only in the sense that it's about you? They're not storing data for no reason; They are storing data their customers have provided for the purposes of contacting you. They are storing data about you for the people who, like it or not, you shared your data with. The nasty 90s database-dump sharing is ove…

> They are storing data about you for the people who, like it or not, you shared your data with. Exactly. I'll add that on a technical level, you aren't being tracked like a hunter would track prey; your machine is being periodically asked to provide identifying information, and you have it configured to automatically comply. I get that most consumers of the web don't understand this, but it is the truth. This is wha…

> your machine is being periodically asked to provide identifying information, and you have it configured to automatically comply.

That is true for cookies, but trackers also use active and passive fingerprinting that does not provide a way to configure whether your machine automatically "provides identifying information".

Re: Belgium Tells Facebook to Stop Storing Personal Data from Non-Users

#26

Post by cpeterso »

_lce0 wrote: post #23

so what are we waiting to deny third-party cookies?

Blocking third-party cookies breaks some websites, including some bank websites. Then again, Safari on iOS and OS X defaults to only allowing first-party cookies and websites must surely want their services to work on iOS..

Mozilla tried to adopt Safari's cookie policy for Firefox, but backed down when the ad industry turned up the heat:

https://blog.mozilla.org/privacy/2013/02/25/firefox-getting-...

http://www.computerworld.com/article/2495739/internet/ad-ind...

Re: Belgium Tells Facebook to Stop Storing Personal Data from Non-Users

#27

Post by smokeyj »

GauntletWizard wrote: post #19

How about we learn to deal with the fact that they're not storing data that is yours in the sense of ownership, but only in the sense that it's about you? They're not storing data for no reason; They are storing data their customers have provided for the purposes of contacting you. They are storing data about you for the people who, like it or not, you shared your data with. The nasty 90s database-dump sharing is ove…

> I have a right to free speech, and sometimes your name is on my lips.

Except most people don't understand how cookies or like buttons track their behavior. To assume otherwise is disingenuous. The result is the equivalent of bugging someone's car with a GPS tracker and claiming they opted in by virtue of using your parking garage.

Re: Belgium Tells Facebook to Stop Storing Personal Data from Non-Users

#28

Post by AJ007 »

peteretep wrote: post #13
Maarten88 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, LinkedIn is another offender that I'm sure also does this, even more aggressively than Facebook. They blatantly try to download your contact list by directly asking your email password to build shadow profiles and propose new contacts. And I guess WhatsApp probably also used the same practice to grow their network, using contact lists extracted from phones. As I understand it, these practices are simply illegal…

> And I guess WhatsApp probably also used the same > practice to grow their network ... how would that work? I've never seen WhatsApp offer to let me message someone who didn't have an account.

Have you seen WhatsApp contacts show up as suggested friends in Facebook?

Re: Belgium Tells Facebook to Stop Storing Personal Data from Non-Users

#29

Post by dogecoinbase »

GauntletWizard wrote: post #19

How about we learn to deal with the fact that they're not storing data that is yours in the sense of ownership, but only in the sense that it's about you? They're not storing data for no reason; They are storing data their customers have provided for the purposes of contacting you. They are storing data about you for the people who, like it or not, you shared your data with. The nasty 90s database-dump sharing is ove…

I have a right to free speech...

Not in Europe. Another overly self-important piece of parallel structure prose ruined by Americocentrism!

Re: Belgium Tells Facebook to Stop Storing Personal Data from Non-Users

#30

Post by ryanhuff »

__jal wrote: post #20
ryanhuff wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adsense "users" (website visitors), Google Analytics "users" (website visitors), etc, etc. Its a deep rabbit hole. Imagine a world where Google can't store all of this data.

I have been, for a while now.

I was referring to Google collecting non-user data as a practice and strategy. What would it mean to them if they were blocked (legislatively) from doing so?
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