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Programmers: Stop Calling Yourselves Engineers

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Re: Programmers: Stop Calling Yourselves Engineers

#21

Post by jozzas »

I'm a Software Engineer. It's printed on my undergraduate degree, it's on my business card, and it's recognised by the engineering association in my country. So no, I won't.

"Traditional engineers are regulated, certified, and subject to apprenticeship and continuing education. Engineering claims an explicit responsibility to public safety and reliability, even if it doesn’t always deliver."

I DO have an explicit responsibility to public safety and reliability (it comes with the degree). I have to consider the implications of my work and could be held criminally liable for errors resulting in injury or death. If one was designing and building - or even updating - the software for a radiation therapy machine, for example, wouldn't you want it to be that way? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25

Re: Programmers: Stop Calling Yourselves Engineers

#22

Post by sotojuan »

jozzas wrote: post #21

I'm a Software Engineer. It's printed on my undergraduate degree, it's on my business card, and it's recognised by the engineering association in my country. So no, I won't. "Traditional engineers are regulated, certified, and subject to apprenticeship and continuing education. Engineering claims an explicit responsibility to public safety and reliability, even if it doesn’t always deliver." I DO have an explicit res…

This is obvious, but he's talking about the US. Here, "software engineer" is a sort of made up title. I wish the US was like your country, though.

Re: Programmers: Stop Calling Yourselves Engineers

#23

Post by lmorris84 »

I normally just call myself a developer, although engineer is so widespread in the industry now I wouldn't mind that either. I can't look at someone with a straight face when they refer to themselves as a "software craftsman" though. I do think we need to reign in the job titles a little, many of them smack of one-upmanship.

Re: Programmers: Stop Calling Yourselves Engineers

#25

Post by imgabe »

As a licensed Professional Engineer and wannabe programmer, this guy should get off his high horse. There's a difference between an engineer and a Professional Engineer. Much of the engineering industry, electrical, mechanical, chemical, etc. does not require licensure. It's only needed in specific industries where engineering services are offered directly to the public. I don't think anyone is confusing software engineers with PEs.

And building things in the public interest? Please. These things our built in our client's interest. Yes, sometimes that client is "the public" in the form of a local, state or Federal government, but not always, and for many engineers, hardly ever. It's also dubious that the government's interest coincides with the public interest. I worked for a firm that bid on the contract to design the NSA's 60MW datacenter in Utah. We didn't win, but someone did, and they happily took the money to build it. Public interest indeed.

Yes, we recommend building things in sustainable, efficient ways whenever possible, but at the end of the day someone else is footing the bill. As long as they aren't asking for something outright illegal or dangerous, they'll get it. If they want to knock together a building that barely meets code minimum requirements, that's what they'll get.

> Today’s computer systems pose individual and communal dangers that we’d never accept in more concrete structures like bridges, skyscrapers, power plants, and missile-defense systems.

It's still pretty early days as far as computer systems go. It's only a little over a hundred years ago that hundreds of people died in a fire[1] causing us to realize the egress doors need to always swing outwards and should not be locked. And that's after how many millennia of building buildings?

We don't accept these dangers now because we know what they are after people having died from them in the past. We won't know what things we will need to watch for in computing until they happen.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fi...

Re: Programmers: Stop Calling Yourselves Engineers

#26

Post by d43594 »

As any person will have observed more often than not accreditation proves little or nothing about anything. For example many corporations possess numerous different accreditations (some of which are industry specific) e.g. ISO:XXXXX, OHASA, Microsoft Gold etc etc etc. Most of these are simply seen by management functions as a box ticking exercise. The principles and most importantly mindsets evangelised by such accreditations are never enacted or held by those with the power to enact them. Perhaps this is a problem because for some reason management types aren't seen to be a collaborative discipline, but instead a ruling one. Often engineers are at the behest of management decisions which tend to be based upon ill-conceived preconceptions, and poor and/or politicised information. Ultimately more engineers need to hold management positions to ensure values are enforced and engrained within the culture of the organisation. To some extent accreditation is just advertising and brand image.

My house builder is accredited by X, Y and Z but their management and customer service is so poor that I fail to see how the business functions. I think this projects a some what idealistic view, not founded in reality.

Re: Programmers: Stop Calling Yourselves Engineers

#28

Post by leoc »

Turing_Machine wrote: post #17
jessaustin wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hehehe, I imagine it bothers the astronauts as well...

Not to mention rock stars.

And do you really think it's wise to irritate dedicated, highly-skilled professionals in black pajamas? Just saying.

Re: Programmers: Stop Calling Yourselves Engineers

#30

Post by HappyTypist »

lmorris84 wrote: post #23

I normally just call myself a developer, although engineer is so widespread in the industry now I wouldn't mind that either. I can't look at someone with a straight face when they refer to themselves as a "software craftsman" though. I do think we need to reign in the job titles a little, many of them smack of one-upmanship.

"Rockstar Programmer"

"Laravel Artisan"

"Web Alchemist"

"Node Artificer"

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