Microsoft Admits Windows 10 Automatic Spying Cannot Be Stopped • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft Admits Windows 10 Automatic Spying Cannot Be Stopped

#21

Post by McGlockenshire » Tue, Nov 03, 2015, 12:45 AM UTC

mmastrac wrote: post #14

Does Windows 10 actually log keystrokes? If so, that's pretty disturbing.

No, Windows 10 does not generally log keystrokes.

The one and only place that things like keystroke logging are mentioned in the privacy policy is in the context of interacting with Cortana and the related search service, where the phrasing is similar to "things you enter here get sent to us, and we log those things."

The vast majority of the Windows 10 privacy concerns are mitigated by turning off the Customer Experience Program stuff and never turning on Cortana.

Re: Microsoft Admits Windows 10 Automatic Spying Cannot Be Stopped

#22

Post by pdkl95 » Tue, Nov 03, 2015, 12:50 AM UTC

coolnow wrote: post #19

pdkl95 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please, don't use these tools. Yes, they may fix the immediate problem, but you're still rewarding Microsoft with money and/or market share. You're sending them the message that you are loyal even when they abuse their power in obvious ways. By continuing to use their platform, you're conditioning[1] Microsoft to continue with stronger spyware in the future. Unless they see an actual reduction in revenue and fewer pe…

Okay, tell me how i can play all my Steam games then (no, not just the Source Engine ones).

1) wine is quite good these days. It has played far more than Source Engine games for like 5+ years. Ever since steam went to Linux and the Unity engine became popular, compatibility problems became much less common even on new games.

2) If you are always going to rank playing games as more important than spyware, then you're an easy mark. If you aren't willing to make a few sacrifices to invest in your future, then you're made your decision. Why do you care about spyware if games are more important?

The costs of leaving are only going to get worse with time. I recommend paying these costs now instead of waiting for the problem to get worse.

Re: Microsoft Admits Windows 10 Automatic Spying Cannot Be Stopped

#23

Post by lurkinggrue » Tue, Nov 03, 2015, 12:53 AM UTC

coolnow wrote: post #19

pdkl95 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please, don't use these tools. Yes, they may fix the immediate problem, but you're still rewarding Microsoft with money and/or market share. You're sending them the message that you are loyal even when they abuse their power in obvious ways. By continuing to use their platform, you're conditioning[1] Microsoft to continue with stronger spyware in the future. Unless they see an actual reduction in revenue and fewer pe…

Okay, tell me how i can play all my Steam games then (no, not just the Source Engine ones).

Did you know Steam spy's on you? It saves your keystrokes (In steam instant messages) and tells people what game you are playing!

Re: Microsoft Admits Windows 10 Automatic Spying Cannot Be Stopped

#24

Post by PhantomGremlin » Tue, Nov 03, 2015, 12:53 AM UTC

I'm not trying to start a flame war, but an honest discussion. Two words:

   Satya Nadella

He seems even more tone-deaf than most CEOs, e.g. his comments about women asking for a raise in pay.

So, here's the delicate question: is this cultural? He's originally "not from around here", but he's lived in the USA for at least 25 years.

In contrast, Tim Cook seems to have staked out the opposite ground, i.e. that user privacy matters.

Re: Microsoft Admits Windows 10 Automatic Spying Cannot Be Stopped

#25

Post by razster » Tue, Nov 03, 2015, 12:55 AM UTC

criddell wrote: post #8

I don't understand how Windows 10 can be used in a lot of small business environments. If you are big enough to get the enterprise version, everything apparently can be tweaked. But there are a lot of tiny businesses that order a PC from Dell, install some software for their vertical, and then do little more than regularly install updates. My old dentist was a two person operation. They aren't going to get the enterp…

Unfortunately with all US and Alaska tribes, their IT/MIS upgrade their systems as soon as an new OS releases... So in order to keep up we have to install the latest Windows to ensure our application runs without issues. That is the only reason why we do it, though we test on VMs and our workstations are still Windows 7.

Re: Microsoft Admits Windows 10 Automatic Spying Cannot Be Stopped

#26

Post by blibble » Tue, Nov 03, 2015, 1:00 AM UTC

coolnow wrote: post #19

pdkl95 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please, don't use these tools. Yes, they may fix the immediate problem, but you're still rewarding Microsoft with money and/or market share. You're sending them the message that you are loyal even when they abuse their power in obvious ways. By continuing to use their platform, you're conditioning[1] Microsoft to continue with stronger spyware in the future. Unless they see an actual reduction in revenue and fewer pe…

Okay, tell me how i can play all my Steam games then (no, not just the Source Engine ones).

personally I took it as an opportunity to finally try out VT-d gaming... so Linux on the bare metal, and Windows tightly locked down in a VM (on a separate vlan).

MS are free to spy on me playing X-COM, but they won't be getting anything else...

Re: Microsoft Admits Windows 10 Automatic Spying Cannot Be Stopped

#27

Post by j4kp07 » Tue, Nov 03, 2015, 1:02 AM UTC

lurkinggrue wrote: post #23

coolnow wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, tell me how i can play all my Steam games then (no, not just the Source Engine ones).

Did you know Steam spy's on you? It saves your keystrokes (In steam instant messages) and tells people what game you are playing!

But you are opting in for that service.

Re: Microsoft Admits Windows 10 Automatic Spying Cannot Be Stopped

#28

Post by simcop2387 » Tue, Nov 03, 2015, 1:02 AM UTC

pdkl95 wrote: post #22

coolnow wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, tell me how i can play all my Steam games then (no, not just the Source Engine ones).

1) wine is quite good these days. It has played far more than Source Engine games for like 5+ years. Ever since steam went to Linux and the Unity engine became popular, compatibility problems became much less common even on new games. 2) If you are always going to rank playing games as more important than spyware, then you're an easy mark. If you aren't willing to make a few sacrifices to invest in your future, then…

The problem with wine in this case is that it currently can't work with anything using DX11/12, many (if not most) of the big name titles coming out on PC these days are unusable on wine because of that.

2 is actually a decent reason to try to change, given that Valve is trying to get more venders to SteamOS it might just be start to make a difference.

Re: Microsoft Admits Windows 10 Automatic Spying Cannot Be Stopped

#29

Post by DiabloD3 » Tue, Nov 03, 2015, 1:05 AM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #3

Regardless of how you fall on this issue, this article is clearly highly biased. If you read their link "detailed data"[0] you can see there is an issue but you can also see that the level of invasion is low with most telemetry disabled. This article links to that, but then ignores that author's conclusions (that it is a relatively light level of privacy invasion) to draw this conclusion: > So how concerned should us…

I agree with Someone1234 here.

Mods, can we get this link swapped out with a less biased one? I'm okay with Microsoft's telemetry stance hitting the front page, but I want it from a better source.

Re: Microsoft Admits Windows 10 Automatic Spying Cannot Be Stopped

#30

Post by krompus » Tue, Nov 03, 2015, 1:05 AM UTC

pdkl95 wrote: post #22

coolnow wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, tell me how i can play all my Steam games then (no, not just the Source Engine ones).

1) wine is quite good these days. It has played far more than Source Engine games for like 5+ years. Ever since steam went to Linux and the Unity engine became popular, compatibility problems became much less common even on new games. 2) If you are always going to rank playing games as more important than spyware, then you're an easy mark. If you aren't willing to make a few sacrifices to invest in your future, then…

Linux gaming is getting better and better. Yes, we have a few sacrifices to make in the form of not getting to play every mainstream title, but many of the ones worth your time have great Linux versions, and if not, they might run well in Wine.

I wiped Windows nine months ago and installed Arch. The only things I missed were Dark Souls and Insurgency.

I found out a week ago that Dark Souls runs like butter in Wine, and Insurgency just got native Linux support the other day. I am a happy Linux gamer.

As for the titles that choose to avoid supporting my operating system, well I guess I won't be supporting them with my dollars.