Indian Government adopts an open source policy • Hacker News Board

Re: Indian Government adopts an open source policy

#21

Post by infinity0 » Mon, Nov 02, 2015, 5:19 PM UTC

dangerlibrary wrote: post #18

swayvil wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What retraining? I have several clients, computer illiterate old ladies, who use Ubuntu and Debian just fine. No retraining required. They just jump on that desktop and go.

Until something goes wrong. Like if they can't read the tiny font in the file menu. Then they google it, and discover they need to "sudo apt-get install unity-tweak-tool." Then they manage to actually find a terminal window and run the command, and install the tool, and turn up every available font rendering option, and it still doesn't solve their problem. That is just one real world example. Linux is an operating s…

How's that different from Windows? Instead of opening a terminal, I double click?

Re: Indian Government adopts an open source policy

#22

Post by sandworm101 » Mon, Nov 02, 2015, 5:22 PM UTC

sremani wrote: post #16

swayvil wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What retraining? I have several clients, computer illiterate old ladies, who use Ubuntu and Debian just fine. No retraining required. They just jump on that desktop and go.

We are talking about Government Offices here. The UX difference between Word and LibreOffice is noticeable. People need retraining, no matter how facsimile both are. Its matter of productivity.

>We are talking about Government Offices here. [...] People need retraining.

Why do government workers always need formal retraining? Every job i've ever worked involved constant intake of new skills without dropping tools and attending a class. For a new OS in an office environ that generally boils down to "Here is your new OS. Play around with the colours if you want, but that memo is still due Thursday."

Re: Indian Government adopts an open source policy

#23

Post by mikeryan » Mon, Nov 02, 2015, 5:25 PM UTC

infinity0 wrote: post #21

dangerlibrary wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until something goes wrong. Like if they can't read the tiny font in the file menu. Then they google it, and discover they need to "sudo apt-get install unity-tweak-tool." Then they manage to actually find a terminal window and run the command, and install the tool, and turn up every available font rendering option, and it still doesn't solve their problem. That is just one real world example. Linux is an operating s…

How's that different from Windows? Instead of opening a terminal, I double click?

My neighbor, son, daughter, friend, mailman all probably can provide an answer?

Re: Indian Government adopts an open source policy

#24

Post by rushabh » Mon, Nov 02, 2015, 5:26 PM UTC

This is based on a policy document released a couple months back. Here is a better article http://opensource.com/government/15/8/india-adopts-open-sour...

In general, this is just intent. I am not sure how the government plans to implement this. Government in India is huge and complex and most of the arms run independently, which is great for IT services vendors like IBM, TCS and others since they make money by selling the same stuff over and over again.

People who I know and are working in various organizations with the government are pretty frustrated with the pace and lack of intent on the ground.

Most Indian FOSS projects like BOSS Linux are pretty lame and they don't have any real community behind them. I think they took down the forum on the BOSS linux website, because there were no questions asked. Some of the other "successful" services like Spoken Tutorials (http://spoken-tutorial.org/) are pretty bad too (though I see websites have improved).

As a tax paying Indian citizen, I really hope all this changes.

Re: Indian Government adopts an open source policy

#25

Post by remael » Mon, Nov 02, 2015, 5:27 PM UTC

The article says India is following in the steps of Germany and UK. I'm not aware of a policy in Germany that pushes government organistaions into using open source software. There are city administrations, like Munich, which switched over to Linux on their own account. Though that is nowhere near a national policy. What is the author referring to?

Re: Indian Government adopts an open source policy

#26

Post by dangerlibrary » Mon, Nov 02, 2015, 5:28 PM UTC

infinity0 wrote: post #21

dangerlibrary wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until something goes wrong. Like if they can't read the tiny font in the file menu. Then they google it, and discover they need to "sudo apt-get install unity-tweak-tool." Then they manage to actually find a terminal window and run the command, and install the tool, and turn up every available font rendering option, and it still doesn't solve their problem. That is just one real world example. Linux is an operating s…

How's that different from Windows? Instead of opening a terminal, I double click?

I believe you can simply zoom, using ctrl-+ or ctrl-scroll wheel. It's a common pattern that works across applications in windows and OSX, but for whatever reason isn't implemented in the file menu of Ubuntu systems. Maybe for open-source-y political reasons or maybe because component X of Y system included in the file menu already uses that shortcut. It doesn't matter - the existing knowledge of how to zoom in is useless, and you're stuck figuring out the new system.

Again, it's just one example. Others are far worse: try to figure out how to play a song or some other audio into a skype call by piping data directly into the mic input channel. It's pretty trivial in windows, and there are third party tools with easy to understand GUIs if you can't figure it out on your own. On Linux you'll be futzing with jackd configs for hours.

Re: Indian Government adopts an open source policy

#27

Post by infinity0 » Mon, Nov 02, 2015, 5:32 PM UTC

mikeryan wrote: post #23

infinity0 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How's that different from Windows? Instead of opening a terminal, I double click?

My neighbor, son, daughter, friend, mailman all probably can provide an answer?

Please, do provide an answer. And I mean a real answer of real things they actually did, that is comparable on Windows and Linux, as opposed to marketing crap someone else told them about that they then mis-stored in their own heads as false memories.

My experience is that there is no substantial difference in the amount of "fucking around" you have to do with Windows or Linux. I had to install custom graphics drivers from third party sites, install custom keyboards, mess around with random settings, especially after upgrades between different OS versions.

Please show me an actual study instead of talking about personal anecdotes.

Re: Indian Government adopts an open source policy

#28

Post by dangerlibrary » Mon, Nov 02, 2015, 5:39 PM UTC

infinity0 wrote: post #27

mikeryan wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My neighbor, son, daughter, friend, mailman all probably can provide an answer?

Please, do provide an answer. And I mean a real answer of real things they actually did, that is comparable on Windows and Linux, as opposed to marketing crap someone else told them about that they then mis-stored in their own heads as false memories. My experience is that there is no substantial difference in the amount of "fucking around" you have to do with Windows or Linux. I had to install custom graphics driver…

You have provided personal anecdotes to support your position and demanded "actual studies" to refute your position.

I do not think you are truly interested in changing your mind.

Re: Indian Government adopts an open source policy

#29

Post by superskierpat » Mon, Nov 02, 2015, 5:43 PM UTC

dangerlibrary wrote: post #18

swayvil wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What retraining? I have several clients, computer illiterate old ladies, who use Ubuntu and Debian just fine. No retraining required. They just jump on that desktop and go.

Until something goes wrong. Like if they can't read the tiny font in the file menu. Then they google it, and discover they need to "sudo apt-get install unity-tweak-tool." Then they manage to actually find a terminal window and run the command, and install the tool, and turn up every available font rendering option, and it still doesn't solve their problem. That is just one real world example. Linux is an operating s…

Honestly, how many of them do you actually expect to be able to fix the problem on windows? They just call the it guy.

Re: Indian Government adopts an open source policy

#30

Post by infinity0 » Mon, Nov 02, 2015, 5:43 PM UTC

dangerlibrary wrote: post #26

infinity0 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How's that different from Windows? Instead of opening a terminal, I double click?

I believe you can simply zoom, using ctrl-+ or ctrl-scroll wheel. It's a common pattern that works across applications in windows and OSX, but for whatever reason isn't implemented in the file menu of Ubuntu systems. Maybe for open-source-y political reasons or maybe because component X of Y system included in the file menu already uses that shortcut. It doesn't matter - the existing knowledge of how to zoom in is us…

In many FOSS applications ctrl -/+ works too. I've had to mess around with audio and video on Windows too, it's not pretty. It definitely does not "just work". I've never needed to pipe data into a mic input channel on Linux. These days one probably wants "pavucontrol".

I don't like arbitrarily changing UX either, but it's not like Windows doesn't have that problem. I had massive switching headaches moving to the new "ribbon" based stuff in Microsoft Office.

Of course neither side is perfect, but I am thoroughly unconvinced by the "unusable" argument. THere are definitely biases with ignoring the headaches that Windows forces upon users.